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Duelund conversion to DIY Helix Geometry Cabling

I have been an avid user of the Duelund cabling for over two years now and have used them exclusively in my system with great results. I have built many for friends and have used a full loom of interconnects, speaker cables, power cords and an extensive wiring modification for a previously owned balanced power conditioner utilizing Duelund 600V PolyCast wiring which was transformative. My cabling desires can be a little addictive as I have owned and evaluated 40+ brands of cabling costing more than an entire stereo system!

Over the past six months I stumbled upon a thread here on Audiogon in regards to a Helix designed cabling and as you probably already know, I just had to look a little deeper into this cable design…After a month of studying and sourcing parts, I decided to reach out to the designer/architect, Williewonka who gave more insights and philosophy on how the cable came into existence.

That conversation got the ball rolling in converting one of my KLE Duelund interconnects to Steve’s Helix designed which only entailed replacing the neutral with a Mil-Spec 16 AWG silver-plated copper wire with the neural wire being 3 times longer than the signal wire and of course the “Coiling” of the neutral wire : )

After the modification was complete, I was not sure what to expect from the Helix cabling but I was quite shocked with the results with “ZERO” burn-in time…The sound stage became much wider/deeper with a much tighter/focused image and clarity/transparency is like nothing I have ever heard in any cabling regardless of cost. In fact, I just sold a full loom of a commercially designed Helix Cable that’s renowned around the world and has more direct sale than any cable manufacturer; these $200 DIY Helix Cables walked all over them…

I believe you will hear the same results as I have and have heard back from friends who have already modified their Duelunds with the same results; WOW! Remember the cables will need 200+ hours to burn-in and settle into your system. My system is now 90% DIY Helix to include IC, SC, PC and Coax with each cabling adding its beauty of an organic and natural presentation that draws you into the fabric of the music.

You can tailor the sound of your cables using Duelund, Mundorf silver/1% gold, the outstanding Vh Audio OCC Solid Copper or Silver with Airlok Insulation or your favorite wiring and you can change it at any time…

 

http://www.image99.net/blog/files/category-diy-cables.html

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/difference-in-sound-between-copper-and-silver-digital-cables

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/adding-shielding-to-existing-cables

 

Enjoy,

Wig


128x128wig
williewonka
3,075 posts
 
@debjit_g - I tried a full Duelund Signal and Duelund neutral interconnect probablby last year and it was identical to the same cable with the Mil-spec neutral.

Others in Europe have tried some very good wires for the Neutral on speaker and interconnects and found it made no difference, hence why I still recommend the Mil-Spec for the neutral

As for the signal/live wire - my pref’s in descending order (for all cables)
  1. Neotech Solid UP-OCC copper (Naked)
  2. VH Audio Solid UP-OCC copper (Naked) no difference from #1
  3. Neotech solid UP-OCC copper (Teflon)
  4. VH Audio Solid UP-OCC copper (AirLok)
  5. Mundorf solid silver/gold (in cotton sleeve)
  6. Duelund stranded tinned copper in cotton/oil (interconnect and speaker cables only)
  7. Duelund stranded tinned copper in Polycast insulation for live wire in power cables
The gauge and umber of wires used are as follows
  • for IC’s 2 x 18 gauge for Neotech, VH Audio, Mundorf and Duelund was 1 x 18 gauge cotton oil
  • For speaker cables using Neotech 1 x 14 gauge
  • For speaker cables using VH Audio, 2 x 18 gauge
  • For speaker cables using Duelund, 1 x 16 and 1 x 12 gauge
  • For power cables with Neotech 1 x 12 gauge
  • For power cables with VH Audio 4 x 18 gauge
  • For power cables with Duelund 1 x 12 gauge with Polycast insulation

What difference are there between these wires?
  • all are very good wires to use for the signal wires but as you apporach my #1 - the image gets bigger and more focussed, the dynamics are faster and the clarity and details improve.
  • Duelund is not as fast as the UP-OCC copper or the silver, so dynamics are a little slower, but that translates to being less aggressive and more "laid back", so it really depends on the ears of the listener and the music they listen too
  • Also, my system is all solid state, so there would very likely be a slight change in my order if I were to hear the wires on an all tube system.
  • But I stress these are MY PREFERENCES on MY SYSTEM in MY LISTENING SPACE.
The one thing I have come to appreciate about the Helix Deign is that it is very easy to change the signal wires, so you could start with Duelund and easily move to something else later

I would probably skip the Mundorf Solid Silver/gold because the VH Audio Solid Copper wire with the AirLok insulation was better and costs less

I have not included the VH Audio Solid Silver wire because on my system, the Solid Copper was almost as good as the Mundorf at 1/5th the price, but I know others have tried it and love the results on their system

Perhaps @wig and @grannyring - or anyone else - can provide their comments - because different opinions makes for a more informed choice.

BTW - My musical taste is pretty much anything that sounds amazing, so I have lots to choose from, but I can appreciate some genres might sound better with a more "relaxed sounding" wire.

Hope that helps Steve

grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,504 posts
 
@twoleftears. I have made and sold cables with the Duelund stranded and tinned copper wire in oil impregnated copper for years. I have built ICs, USBs, speaker cables, DC cables, jumpers etc... and I like that conductor. The Helix is just heads and heals better with either the VH Audio or Neotech copper wire with the Teflon insulation in place.

We are now talking about squeezing out even more performance from the very best many of us have ever heard or built. Don’t misunderstand the point of our latest posts.  The double helix design as outgunned cables selling for up to $13,000! This is reality. Yes, these are that good. As much as I loved my Acoustic BBQ Double Smoked Duelund cables I have to admit these helix designs surpass them in every sonic attribute important to us Aphiles.
debjit_g
280 posts
 
@williewonka Steve,
thanks so much for the detail answer.

I know the Mundrof silver/gold very well and use both the 15.5awg and 18awg in my DIY server power supply and all DC cables. They are fantastic to say the least. Unfortunately, they bumped their prices couple of months ago and now I would tend to use them in critical areas if I had to cut down in price, with only Neotech PTFE solid core as the replacement. I haven’t used the Mundrof in other parts of the audio, mainly signal and speaker cables, so its refreshing to hear that a lower priced VH Audio cable is as suitable. Thank you.

When you say naked, you probably meant stripping the insulation off the wire ? Did you have any other jacket on it ? say a cotton shelving ? For the speaker cables, I see that you used double runs of VH Audio 18awg but used a single run of Neotech 14awg. Was there any need for double runs on the Neotech ?


On the Helix, what awg would be suitable for the Mil-Spec ? Any link where I can but it cheap ?







eugeniy
6 posts
 
At the input of the amplifier I have a Duelund CAST-Cu. Copper twisted bare wires come out of it. I asked Duelund a question: do I need to cover this wire with something? The answer is no, it will degrade the sound!
I dealt with OCC copper plated with gold, and on top with a thin layer of polyurethane varnish. Very good wire and I like it more than MUNDORF solid silver / gold. But I do not have enough air and it's all about this insulation. Now I have washed off this polyurethane and am assembling the cable. Let's see what the result will be(although this is understandable!).
On the positive side, the gold plating remains and there is no need to worry about copper oxidationВведите свой текст ...
williewonka
3,075 posts
 
@debjit_g - here are your answers..

  1. NAKED means without insulation.
  2. I inserted the naked wire into a larger diameter teflon tube and sealed the ends using adhesive lined heat shrink available from many places on the web
  3. Two runs of 18 gauge eqauals 15 gauge, so the 14 gauge was thicker, hence the need for only a single strand
  4. If you are in the US try https://www.apexjr.com/wire.html
  5. If you are outside the US then Take Five Audio, Parts Connexion, and HiFi Collective are stores I use for my wires
  6. You can search on eBay as well
The problem with finding more affordable Mil-spec wires
  • their quality can vary and there are leterally dozens of spec’s they could conform too including
  • Quality of copper
  • thickness and quality of the silver plating
  • The thickness of the insulation
  • Most (if any) are not cryo-treated
  • The Take Five Audio wire is very good quality AND it is cryo-treated
  • so really - you do get what oyu pay for
  • I have only ever used the Mil-Spec wire from Take Five Audio - perhaps the highest quality and Cryo-treated
  • Jantzen stranded silver plated wire is another wire I have heard performs very well for the Neutral

For a more budget oriented cable that performs very well you could use a solid copper with Teflon sleeve
  • I used one when I started this design and it worked quite well -but not as good as the Mil-spec
  • however I was not using the same signal wires as I do today, so it could prove to be very good and much more affordable
Granted - the wires we are using today makes the Helix cables more expensive than most other DIY solutions to build, but as @grannyring has pointed out - they are outperforming commercial products that cost thousands of dollars

But the nice thing with DIY - you get to use the wires/connectors that suit YOUR budget

Regards - Steve
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