Harley quote

djones51

Audiophiles with more money than common sense have gone beyond diminishing returns they’ve reached negative returns.

With only rare exceptions, pretty much all audio equipment results in a negative return because it depreciates so quickly. Audio equipment is part of a hobby, not an investment.

Nuance does seem to be lost on this fellow.

@cleeds - @djones is talking about spending money and getting worse sound. Of course it is a bad investment - no one is talking about that. We are talking about value in improved SQ for each incremental dollar spent. The law of diminishing returns (for audio equipment specifically) just simply states that all things being equal, for each incremental dollar spent the sound improvement decreases. Of course if poorly paired equipment (or just overpriced stuff) there can be a degradation. It is most appropriate/evident within a product line of a manufacturer. 

In the discussion of an overall integrated system, you can talk about new HVAC systems, new power lines, room renovation, beyond equipment.

When dealers pay 60% (or less) for equipment, most used stuff is immediately depreciated that 40%. Now, if you can find equipment that holds that 60% long term, you have better value, especially if you buy it used.

I am trying to help cure people from upgradeitis, and to enjoy what they have and improving their existing equipment with the positive connotation of tweaks, where they are audible, not just measurable.

Audio experience has nothing to do with money first...

Audio experience has nothing to do with upgrade first...

Audio experience has nothing to do with blind consumerism...

Audio experience is the question you ask yourself about the system you already own which was carefully chosen, with your purse limitations, and the question is: how do i install in his working dimensions optamally what i own for listening it at his optimal level....

There is plenty of example of very costly system that sound bad or harsh because people never figure it out.... Replacing gear is NOT audiophile experience....

Experiencing natural timbre and good imaging on ANY system because we know how to control the working dimensions is audio experience.....

True @mahgister. However, once you've conquered those issues, upgrading equipment can improve the sound, sometimes dramatically. Just beware of the law of diminishing returns....and upgradeitis. People spending monopoly money on stereo equipment is good for the economy and the manufacturers they support. They want the hottest/latest/"best" reviewed. If not for them, we'd all have less manufacturers, and less choice, and certainly higher used equipment prices, and that would not be a good thing.

It's just like with cars. Some people want the brand new 2021 model and are willing to pay list or close to list price to be the first one on their block with it. For an example, a Porsche 911 may depreciate $40-50K during an initial 2-3 year lease of $2K/month, and then someone (like me) can get one with an extended manufacturers warranty and 99% of the enjoyment at a the depreciated price. Is it worth $50K to me to get the last 1% cachet - no way. The law of diminishing returns strikes once again. The best are the monopoly money guys (or girls) who BUY new and keep them for a year or less (I've heard of one that keeps them for about 3 months) and take a ridiculous hit. But they don't care, and if they're happy because they got a different color or a cabriolet for springtime, I'm happy that they make the cars more accessible. Otherwise there would be way fewer on the market and the prices would be even higher.