DAC's with volume control question

yyzsantabarbara: went through 5 different preamps the first couple years of owning the PWDII. some higher end ones at that. Pass, Levinson, AR etc. none sounded bad but none sounded better. decided to go pre-amp-less and have been happy since. do plan on trying preamps again when i build my next/real listening room setup but right now, it's just simplicity, cost and get it done quick. like i mentioned above, this new system will be pushed to my living room once i have the time to to build one right in my listening room (research/auditions/much bigger money). this entire ordeal is do to my older system taking a crap on me. just purchased amp/speakers in a matter of days, sight unseen with minimal research. (adcome gfa875se and sonus faber sonetto viii's).  don't have the time to do it right so i'm just putting together a decent system to get me by for 1-1.5 years with minimal expense/effort. terrible timing but i gotta have some decent tunes until time allows me to do it right. 

adg101: that RME sounds like a nice one. got my work cut out for me when i do get around to building my listening room system.  so many different choices now-a-days compared to 2010 (streaming DAC's). but again, this will be a secondary system in my living room when all is said and done. plug and play/all in one/inexpensive/quick and easy is what i need now (with decent volume control)
could be wrong but i'd kinda expect any decent modern DAC to outshine a 10 year old PWDII. 10 years seems like such a long time in digital. i'll be a little disappointed if whatever inexpensive modern DAC/streamer i end up with doesn't sound as good/better then my old PWDII. maybe i'm expecting too much?. will find out soon enough. will consider separates (Dac/Streamer/Preamp) on the next system but gotta admit i do love a single box that dose everything good

unsound: output voltage doesn't seem to be a commonly disclosed spec. couldn't find it for the 851N. thx for the tip though....in case i do ever find it. =)

found this regarding the Cambridge 851N volume control.....

" Keeping the signal digital to the last moment makes it less susceptible to analogue deterioration, while a 32-bit SHARC DSP controls the volume output; by keeping the entire signal digital the best possible sound is achieved, even at very low volume levels.

jjss49: this kinda alludes to what you mentioned above regarding later in the chain?. but then "alludes to" vs stating/explaining are two different things. i have no clue what most of the above means. it just reminded me of what you pointed out. or is it just the typical marketing wanna-be spin?

They're talking about using the 851N in preamp mode. If you don't connect it to a preamp you are keeping the signal digital until the 851N converts it to analog then on to the amp. Instead of having 851N>Preamp>Amp you have 851N>Amp. They're claiming bypassing a preamp results in less deterioration. It does digital volume control in 32bit which is good there shouldn't be any audible resolution loss. 

Asking the manufacturer for a Voltage output isn’t too much to ask. I certainly would. Standard CD output via RCA is 2 Volts, standard HDCD output via RCA is 2.2 Volts. Not all manufacturers play by the rules.

@levy03

to be honest with you, i don’t have a solid, confident answer for you on this subject

early last year, i had a RME ADI2 dac in house, it did have built-in digital volume control, but i did not use/test that aspect of it (now i regret not doing so)... i just ran it at full volume to hear its sound quality compared to other dacs i was trying, which i assume is how it would sound best... overall it is a good sounding, feature packed (if complex) unit, and many headphone users love the unit... i sold it as i felt it had a very nice clean clear crisp sound, not too lean, but head to head against the chord dacs it did not image nearly as well and the chords were a little more refined - i do remember reading in its (huge) owners manual that they painfully engineered its digital volume control to sound very good - maybe this one is worth your trying... maybe you just pick up one used (they appear on AG or USAM reasonably frequently) at a decent price to try (~$800) - easy to resell - i think at that price the sound is very good and the volume control could work for you

since that time, i moved on to some more expensive dacs, with built in remote volume in the analog domain and they are great, i did not try other lower cost ones

separately, i would mention that when it comes to digital volume attenuation, one needs to leave behind the paradigm of traditional volume control where the ’comfortable’ setting is around halfway or so... with digital you would ideally match the output of dac such that it runs much closer to full output when playing music at your usual listening levels (or at least 80-90%), for the reasons i described earlier

finally - this short video is the best i have seen explaining digital volume control and the considerations therein ... hans really knows what he is talking about and presents his thoughts in a mature, humble way
https://youtu.be/hni1ToR308o