The best TT system for under 30K


Hi agoners! 

I have been floored by Kuzma Stabi XL DC with 4 points TA on a recent audition. It was extremely analog sounding, insane details with speed, beat and clarity that made me wonder if I am listening to a live concert, just can’t help my toe tapping. Was comparing the sound to the top of the line Accuphase CD player with the same rest of system and it was no contest. 

Switching from Accuphase CD player to Kuzma XL DC was sounding like adding a pair of subwoofer and going up 2-3 levels on the rest of the system. Mind you the rest of the system was Accuphase E-650 class A integrated that should favor the Accuphase same brand CD player but that wasn’t the case. The speaker was Kerr Acoustics K300 under 10K entry level bookshelf and the sound of the entire entry level system armed with Kuzma XL DC beat the hell out of the entire super high end system the dealer has on the other listening room with Avalon PM3 speakers, Accuphase A-250 monos, Audionet Stern Preamp with Accuphase CD player. 

However obviously I cannot afford the whole set of Kuzma XL DC considering I am also in the process of upgrading my existing system. What will be the closest contender in the US$30.000 retail price range that has the same sonic signature as Kuzma XL DC? 

Thanks in advance for any advices!!
uwiikz
@uwiikz- sounds like you are on the right track in dealing with the room; to me, parquet would be better than tile, but is still a hard surface; I have wooden floors covered with a large old Persian rug. 
I use bass traps in various corners, have fairly thick cellular or honeycomb type window shades to deal with the glass in the side windows-- the front wall has large windows that are covered first by a thick somewhat absorptive material similar to sail cloth, with several layers of curtains heavily bunched together over them-- it's enough to eliminate that window as a factor. Do read Jim Smith's book- he does in-room set ups at people's homes for a fee and a lot of basics are covered in the book (travel expenses would exceed his fee in your case), but the more familiar you are with your own system in your room, the better you can dial it in; my system took a few years to get right when I lived in NY and when I moved to Texas, and had a new to me room in an old house, I had a pretty good idea of how it would lay out. It still took time to dial it in though-- through measuring, listening and moving the speakers in slight increments. So, by the time you have readied your dedicated room, you'll probably have more experience with the system, what it can do and where its weaknesses are. Small changes can make big differences in set up, particularly with turntables and speaker positioning in the room. 

I don't like over damped rooms with too much treatment- they sound too dead to me. You'll find a balance, the more you listen the more you become accustomed to what the equipment can do and if you are willing to experiment a little, you can optimize positioning.
 
The turntable does require something that is not susceptible to footfalls and it is very heavy, as you know. If you look at my system page, you'll see how I have it mounted on an HRS platform, which in turn, sits on a big Minus K isolation platform. Franc sells an active isolation device but it isn't really meant to deal with footfalls- he assumes you'd be on a concrete slab but the active devices are typically used to improve the overall performance of the equipment by isolation. Mike Lavigne, who is probably one of the best known members here, has done a deep dive on these things and would be a good source of information about them if you are curious. Just note that they won't solve a footfall problem; the Minus K will. 
@rsf507 sharp eyes in noticing the folded paper on the temporary table leg 😂😂😂....I am waiting for my custom solid teak wood table to be delivered. The table top will be CNC cut to ensure perfect flatness and the legs will have stillpoint spike. 
@whart today I plan to whip out my decade old rug from storage and put it on my floor. My wife is finally okay with my “insane to her” audio upgrade plan so now I can do whatever I want to reach my target and yes room treatment is very high on my list. I am procrastinating because I don’t fancy strangers working on my bedroom, sure it will have to happen sooner or later but I prefer to finish my mancave downstairs first before tearing apart my private bedroom where I do a lot of naughty things with my wife 😉
@whart just finished cleaning my rug and laid it out inbetween my sofa and speakers, what a difference! Everything else is the same but bass notes are definitely more authoritative and tight! Thanks a lot for the tips man!
Dear @uwiikz : I know you are really impatient/anxious in this new audio world for you in this new and very long trip full of opportunities and full of obstacles that want it or not you as all of us time to time make not one but several mistakes/falls. All those is part of the day by day learning.

You have a very wise dealer that puts in front of you to many excellent " candies for a child " ( like those A-250. ) that the " child " can’t refuse to eat.

You started this thread less than a week ago and rigth know you already made it your first system up-grade: to Miyajima Madake from Kansui, ", well that’s the way you are and the way audio is.

Now and " looking " of what you want and you are doing your next main action is to choose those 2 subwoofers ( yes always must be 2 and never only one. ).
It’s the most critical link in the system chain in the short and long time: we normally make changes in our systems through the years, changes in amps, cartridges, TT, CDP, cables, tonearms but subwoofers where these units normally lives almost for ever with us.

In the other side and I repeat again: we integrate subwoofers in our room/system not mainly to increment the bass low response ( that’s a good side line. ) but to improve the whole QUALITY level performance of that room/system and what we are listening at it.

The best room/systems are those that have the best bass range management/performance. Every thing good or wrong that happens in that frequency range modulates for the good or wrong all the system quality response.
Bass range quality is the most important frequency range in any room/system no matters what.

Rel is a bad choice, first because his response is very poor: -6db at 19hz and its THD is over 5% in the other side is a reflex design instead acoustic suspension that’s lower in distortions and with better overall response: tigther bass.

Of course that you have the Rel dealer at your place and knowing you when you can test it you will pull the triger. Do it a favor and don’t do it yet. Listen to it to learn a little about subs. Anyway you can buy it if you want, your choice.

" REL’s does a far better job of ‘disappearing’ and gelling with your main speakers. "

that statement is not only false but shows the low knowledge level that that gentleman has with the subs specific issue.

Look, if we have a good integration subs inside our room/system all subs " disappears ", period .

Years ago and way before in the high end forums audiophiles talked about subwoofers to listen stereo MUSIC ( people think that subs were for HT. ) I learned my first hand experiences and through several tests in my system and other systems till I learned that subwoofers is a true critical necessity in any " decent " stereo MUSIC room/system. In those years I started a thread in Agon here a highlight about that always is of interest for any audiophile that cares about MUSIC and quality reproduction of that MUSIC:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/do-you-think-you-need-a-subwoofer/post?postid=310058#310058

I tested several subs including Rel and finished my " voyage " with a pair of Velodyne HGS-15 self powered subs that still today I’m enjoying and thatI don’t change it for any other in today market.

Velodyne has a patent for the subwoofer ( sealed/acoustic suspension design. ) can performs at below 20hz and over 100db SPL with an outstanding 0.5% THD, not even today any sub can be not even near that figure.
Velodyne subs sense over 20K times each second the woofer excursions to impede the THD goes higher than that incredible spec. This spec permits that you have the best quality level bass response coming from the Velodyne and that no other subwoofer design for home system use can shows you.

No, you can’t reach Velodyne because it’s not any more in business but making a little internet research I found out that thi’s an unexpected source for the last and latest Velodyne subwoofer design the DD-15.

""" I am concerned if blending the sub perfectly will be tough without built in room correction and I like the idea of cutting the frequency going to main speaker.. """

good that you are concerned about because that room correction is a must to have in the subs. Well this Velodyne has it and has a high-pass filter too:

https://www.referenceaudiovideo.net/velodynedd15.html

are the only units all over the world.I don’t know if the seller/dealer can ship to your country and I don’t know if you can wait for it. It’s worth to have these Velodyne subwoofers, big rewards for you and MUSIC.

Important issue: I think that before you start with the overall room treatment wait till you have in place your subwoofers, the ones you decided to buy: is up to you. Normally the 80% of the room treatment has a direct relationship with the bass range, it’s what it really counts.

Other main subject you have to take in count for optimum subwoofer quality levels is if you will integrate it using the subwoofer crossover to split the signal to the K300 or use an active external crossover for the K300.

If I was you my choice will be to make it through the Bryston ( the Accuphase looks very good too but works in the digital domain. ) external crossover and please let me explain about:

first Bryston is a first grade electronic manufacturer for many years, quality  levels of the design is excellent.
second is that the Bryston unit has alternatives to choose the best one that fulfill the K300 frequency response needs that can mates the best with the subs you choosed.

You can choose between 6db, 12db or 18db crossover filter slopes where the first order ( 6db. ) is very convenient because you have no phase problems as with the higher slope order ones that are the ones that normally comes in the sub crossover.

It comes with an attenuator for the main speakers/K300 .
It’s a dual mono design, all separated for each channel.
Has several selectable high-pass frequency of your choice. I think you will need to test between 80hz and 100hz for the K300.

The subwoofers crossovers don’t comes with all those kind of alternatives and the quality electronics of its designs even that is good has not the high quality level like in the Bryston dedicated unit.

In the other side the subs has two options to be connected: one trhough the Bryston and the other is directly from the preamp if this unit comes with two output connectors and this is the best way to connect the subs: directly from the preamp.

Exist the very best way to make the K300 crossover and this way is how I wired/connected my whole system:

I did it with out active external crossover and certainly not using the sub’s crossover.
What I did was to make the high-pass filter in passive way at the amplifier ( pair of monobloks. ) input with a first order filter ( 6db. ) using a capacitor and a resistor of the best quality you can find out and that’s it.

Adding nothing to the signal avoiding any signal degradation but this alternative needs of a good technician to make the job inside the amplifier. I can do that because I have the electronic input board diagram of the amplifiers. Not all amplifiers permit to do it.

Btw, FM Acoustics is an excellent phono, preamp and amplifier Swiss manufactured with a quality levels second to none. Wise dealer......

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.