Upgrading phono stage


Hello all,

I have a modest system that I have been adding and changing in small increments. I am using a Rogue Audio Sphinx V2. I love the sound of this integrated especially for the money. I am wondering how much I have to spend on a seperate phono stage to get a marked improvement from the built in. I have read that many think the built in phono stage for the Sphinx is quite good. I have zero experience with outboard phono stages. The prices are all over the place and I would like to spend under a $1000 but if that is not enough to make a big change then I will wait and go bigger in the future. I am using a Ortofon 2M Blue at the moment.

Thank you
cpdkee
I recently was wondering the same thing about the phono stage in my Rogue Pharaoh. I hadn't spun any vinyl for a while when a close friends' stories about his new turntable got me interested again to find out how much sonic benefit there was to be had in going with an external phono stage and at what cost. 4 years ago when I got my used Rega RP6 I had a dealer upgrade the stock cartridge to a Hana EL and asked about a future upgrade of phono stages and they recommended the Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+ at $750. Fast forward 4 years and another dealer has popped up even closer to where I live and has a unit that I can take home to demo. I instantly heard more detail and nuances - an overall greater sense of "musicality", if you will, coming from the record grooves , than I had before. I should mention that the optional linear power supply ($600) is a big factor here - the phono stage alone gives you sonic benefits , but these are greatly enhanced with a LPS vs the supplied SMPS walwart. I would highly recommend a sBooster LPS  power supply at $400 over the MS unit though - the MS unit has a thin supply power cord to the phono stage that I discovered had an intermittent short in it, whereas the sBooster has a very thick supply cord . Overall the sBooster is bigger, heavier and just feels more robust. I have previous experience with sBooster as I added one to my DAC and it made a huge difference in sound quality over the stock walwart. As with all things audio, whenever possible try before you buy-  if that is not possible read as many reviews as you can and remember that YMMV. Good luck and good travels on your audio journey.
It's been a while since I heard a Rogue built-in stage, and I know they've supposedly improved it in v3, but back in the day the gap from their entry level built-in (e.g. old Cronus) to their top Ares stand-alone stage was massive. The Rogue 99 Magnum had an optional built-in tube-based board (I auditioned one a long while ago) that was a real cut above the cheaper SS built-ins, but still didn't reach the Ares' level of sound quality. There's only so much they can do with a small SS module (almost certainly opamp based) in a $1300 integrated amp, so I'd imagine it still has to be below the level of the 99's tube board. I'd really encourage you to keep considering the dedicated phono stage upgrade; it's one of the higher ROI's in our hobby. 

What you get from a quality dedicated stage in the $1K - $2K range: so much more information, dynamics, expansive soundstage, and the beauty of vinyl truly starts shine through. Phono stage is such a critical component of analog systems, and your results are highly dependent on the quality of its design/implementation/parts AND proper matching to your cartridge. 

I still suggest the Hagerman Trumpet MC at $1100 is worth stretching for. I've used mine on my $30K turntable with a rotation of fine cartridges - Shelter Accord on the low end, Koetsu Coralstone DC on the high end - and really it come surprisingly close to my $14K VAC phono stage. And its loading + gain settings allow it to accommodate a wider range of cartridges than the VAC. I take this same Trumpet over to my girlfriend's home where she has a Fluance RT-85 with Ortofon 2M Blue. And wow, I am truly shocked at how great it sounds. That phono stage elevates the performance of the whole system.

The Trumpet MC is warm, expansive, and romantic sounding. It won't let you shave on the leading edge of notes but I find gear that does this to be annoying and unmusical anyways. I still have my Ares Magnum and I can say that's a great stage too, and more neutral, but at the end of the day I actually prefer the Trumpet MC (and the Ares Magnum lists for $2800 too). I've had other great stages too like the Herron. I have no connection to Hagerman btw - the Trumpet MC is just a bargain. 
I agree with everyone that says an outboard phono stage will make a huge difference. If you have 2500 to spend you can go pretty far actually. You can get a musical surroundings Nova III for 1500 or so new or closer to 1k used. If you really wanna step it up get the linear power supply for 600 or so more. That still leaves you up to 1k for a cartridge and you can get a lot for that. Could try a Hana MC in the 500-1k range. You'd be all in for 2500 and it will blow your mind. More detail, better soundstage. You'll be amazed. 
Yep I agree with @rmdmoore about the MC cartridge too. The Blue 2M is really great for the money but with a dedicated phono stage and (properly matched) low/medium output MC cartridge (shoot for something in the range of 0.3mv - 0.8 mV) you will be in analog hog heaven! What you get with MC is a more vivid, extended sonic picture with gobs of detail (the good kind).

The trick is that lower output MC cartridges have a notable sonic advantage over high output MC’s due to lower mass coils, but once you get too low then you’re going to allow the noise floor of the phono stage to creep into the picture. 0.4mV - 0.6mV is what I would consider the sweet spot until you get into more exotic phono stages and step-up transformers.