The Absolute Sound vs Pleasing Sound

Besides, timbre and dynamic nuance is where the music is. Everything else is audiophile stuff that many confuse for components of music. Think that’s wrong? Look up any meaningful text, book, article, etc. on the subject of MUSIC and find the chapter on “sound staging”. Good luck.

In my experience the areas of timbre and dynamic nuance are precisely the areas where most “audiophile systems” fall short. The deviations from what is heard live are sometimes grotesque. Excessive and often harsh highs, overblown and discontinuous bass and sometimes a kind of hyper detail that simply does not occur in live music. That kind of sound can be impressive and even the most pleasing for some. So be it. I prefer to work at voicing my system so that, first and foremost, the end result moves the sound in the direction of what I hear live in the areas of timbre and dynamic nuance. It is, in fact, possible to get surprisingly close sometimes. Soundstaging? A distant third concern; if at all. It has little to do with music. So, no concerns about parking space 😉.

Going back to the first point of agreement, that reproduced music will never sound EXACTLY like the sound of live. True, but much can be done to voice a system so that, overall, it moves the reproduction of timbre closer, not further away, from the general sound of live. To me, that is a far better choice for reaching enjoyment. Why? Because more of the MUSIC is preserved.

Frogman is a musician and i bet a very good one...

I am not a musician...

Only an average audiophile wanting to create a good system.... All that frogman says is in the same way my own test criteria to tune and install the rightful controls of the working mechanical,electrical and acoustical dimensions of ANY audio system beginning with mine...

Forget all any other concept, when testing an audio system the basis is the natural playing subtle dynamic of tonal timbre of instruments...Nothing else....

Acoustic settings of a room are the most important of the 3 embeddings dimensions controls....The acoustic settings of the room must make possible the recreation of the tonal envelope of a playing instrument...If not the room acoustic is bad... Be it a concert hall or your audio room....

Experiencing the natural perception of timbre is the fundamental question in audio, in concert acoustic or small room acoustic...

If an audio system can did this right it will do the rest right, if not, nothing will be right even if it seems a relative improvement with a so called "upgrade" with a new hyped electronic design...

It takes me years to erase all the audiophile illusions pertaining to gear, upgrade, electronic design, warm,cold,imaging,soundstage etc....They are secondary concepts pertaining not to music but to some "artificial" and conditioned impressions of sound by the commercial market...

It is the perception of music that is the core of acoustic in audio not sound.... If we speak of sound we are no more in audio but in physics...

Is my system able to recreate natural timbre of piano playing in my room ? That is the question the first one and the last one....

Anything else is marketing vocabulary to distinguish different kind of electronic designs approach...BUT audiophile experience is mainly about musical acoustic not about electronic design progress only and mainly....

Give me now an average relatively good system i know how to make it sound at his optimal level.... No upgrade needed....

The chance that a relatively good average system working at his optimal level satisfy you or even surprize you is indeed very great... It is my experience...






«The walls of Jericho were destroyed by sound not by music, in the same way sound may destroy the ears»-Anonymus Smith

«Beware of the market»-Groucho Marx 

Besides, timbre and dynamic nuance is where the music is. Everything else is audiophile stuff that many confuse for components of music. Think that’s wrong? Look up any meaningful text, book, article, etc. on the subject of MUSIC and find the chapter on “sound staging”. Good luck.

Who said that? Whoever it was, remain in hiding, because it makes no sense. No one talks about "sound staging" with respect to music because with music the performers are right there. If Bruce Springsteen walks in and starts playing right there in front of you what idiot is going to exclaim, "It sounds like he's right in front of me!" 

Oh wait. I know which one. The one that thinks the absence of this in music books means audiophiles made it up.

@russ69: Great attitude! Indeed, Absolute sound is an illusion, for all recording techniques are flawed, and each technique distorts in a different way, so there cannot be an absolute when everything is relative...For me, music reproduction is all about creating a world for yourself through music. I measure systems on how effective they are in creating a universe for you. Another consideration is: what kind of universe are they portraying?
The general trend today is towards a visual cue-based portrayal, where you can "see" and "touch" the hyper-magnified and sound that has it's contrast turned up to the max so we can gleam more information, which produce heightened visual and auditory cues.... It's quite fascinating.  My favorite universe portrayal is not this hyper-magnified universe. My ultimate audio universe is all about connecting your emotions, soul, mind, will and being to the universe of sound. Substance, not the show. Depths instead of the surface. The purpose is time travel to a long gone era, healing, inspiration, living for a brief time in different worlds shown by the soundscapes...

Oh wait. I know which one. The one that thinks the absence of this in music books means audiophiles made it up.

Soundstage or imaging concepts exist for sure....They exist for me...But they were created with the progress of electronic audio and speakers design...When i listen to my system i note their existence or lack of...But the more important concept is a musical one: recreation of the timbre experience...This musical concept precede by far the many audiophiles modern concepts about sound linked to the audio market and engineering..

Nobody then can contest that the audiophile concepts exist and make sense...

The central point is if we want to judge the accuracy of our system the main central concept is the musical concept of natural playing tonal timbre....That is what i read about in the posts of frogman...

And this is my experience in my listenings experiments to embed rightfully my system... The "timbre" experience is the crux perceiving experience....

This dont negate the fact that i want good depth imaging and large soundstage at all... But creating a better timbre experience give us the rest.... Enlarging or improving imaging is good but dont give us a better natural timbre completely by itself if we dont focus our attention toward timbre... The acoustic settings conditions to give a better timbre experience will gives us all the other experience... The opposite is not always true...

The acoustical explanation for that is in the definition of timbre itself by 5 characteristics which for their existence ask for a complex acoustical balance in the room which balance will give us anyway imaging and soundstage as a secondary effect... But modifying the soundstage by itself dont give us necessarily a better timbre experience... It is for this reason that listening to timbre is fundamental to refine and fine tune our acoustical settings in the right direction....

Why don't speaker manufacturer's publish their speakers responses?!  What are they hiding?  Why can't I tune my speakers to suit my ears?  And why won't Magico return my phone calls?
oh, wait, wrong thread.  You guys are discussing the pleasures of actually listening to and enjoying music.  My mistake, I'll take my comments elsewhere.