Horning owners what amps have you used?


Just curious what amps other owners, or previous owners, of the Aristoteles, Eufrodite, Agathon or Perikles have used. Chime in even if you don't own these speakers but have an opinion.

I know most everyone has heard these speakers with the TRON Discovery or Telstar at RMAF and the 211 is heavenly IMO, but way out of my price range.

I have the Aristoteles Zigma and a Thoress 300B SET (8w). I love it, but like anyone else who is possessed with sound addiction, as Neil says: rust never sleeps.

Has anyone used anything less than 8 watts? Or more power like a 300B PP or 845? I do have a Berning ZH270, and unlike a fellow Audiogon-er who had the ZH230 and Eufrodite and thought highly of the match, the ZH270 sound is not my thing.
dpe
Ralph, I think it comes down to what I relayed Bud being adamant about - a backloaded horn (BLH) and true TL are the converse of one another.

I believe your seminal work was done with a pair of Frieds, yes? The Frieds couple magically with the Atma Spheres. Even the current four ohm versions. In fact, the low impedance does not at all present the expected difficulty you see in more typical loudspeaker offerings. Bud was never surprised at this, and chalked it up to his raison d'etre - the resistive, not reactive loudspeaker via true TL, low Qts drivers, and (most importantly) series crossovers.

Unfortunately, as you know, he passed away (wow, has it really been almost a decade?!?) before I could really get it all out of him, and though he did provide a thorough and well thought out and worded explanation at the time, I'm unable to recall enough to discuss it intelligently. In summary, more or less, the TL will taper down as one moves through the line, snuffing out the backwave. The BLH will do the opposite, expand, and amplifying it. The ramifications of this are not subtle.

Fast forward a couple of years...a friend of mine who you know pretty well began using a well-known pair of single driver BLHs. One day we tried several tube amplifiers on them: an 16 wpc 211 SET, 15 wpc 300B PSE, 78 wpc Class A push-pull tube, and an 60(?) wpc OTL (not Atma Sphere).

For whatever reason, the first two amplifiers were head and shoulders better with these speakers than the latter. A real surprise, as other more ubiquitous speakers we had tried in the past always yielded the expected results. The two triode amps came across sounding powerful, particularly, the 211 SET. Most surprising, the 78 wpc PP tube amp, which one reviewer claimed sounded like 150 wpc, just could NOT put power into the speaker. Very strange, indeed. The OTL was thin, harsh, and lacking its typical low end performance. Perhaps, it could handle the driver itself, but the folded horn presented something far more difficult for it to push through.

Along these lines, I do believe there is something there in terms of the impedance these speakers present to an amplifier that is much different than the norm. It might not be something folks have yet been able to measure or quantify, but it's something that can be felt, heard, and experienced.

My own Hornings have been a challenge, the biggest I've had to work through in audio. Several times, I came close to giving up on them. The one thing that remained in my mind to the contrary was that Jeff Catalano has always done a masterful job in setting them up and producing what I consider perhaps the most natural and beguiling sound of any room at a show. It's taken me several years to get to the point where I now believe I can have these (or the next iteration) for the long term. Of course, no speaker (or product) is perfect. I do wish they imaged a whole lot better than they do. But the combination of clarity, dynamics, overall realism, and that aforementioned naturalness is something I do not hear in most loudspeakers I've been around.
Hi Joe, I understand your empirical position as being real, but I would not regard it as universal by any means with regards to OTLs and rear-loaded horns. It simply means that the amp you used sounded the way it did with that speaker, and it does not follow that that is true of all OTLs on the same speaker.

IOW it may be that your experience was real, but that it may well have been possible to make that OTL work better by playing with other variables- speaker cables and power cords come to mind- OTLs usually don't like long speaker cables and can be quite sensitive to cable design! BTW most OTLs other than ours use a lot of loop feedback, which can cause them to sound thin on a speaker that is built with low or zero feedback speakers in mind. see http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Paradigms_in_Amplifier_Design.php for more information.
It's been a while here...
Has anyone had any more discoveries on driving them Horning Eufrodites?
Thanks.