The Absolute Sound vs Pleasing Sound

Not every opinion is the result of bias.

I appreciate your post cleeds but i will make a precision...

Every opinion become a bias, but all opinion are not unfounded orientation of the mind or useless and meaningless habit, some opinion and unconscious bias are motivated by learning and listening, or any slow acquisition of knowledge...

All biases are prejudices but some prejudices are more meaningful than others.... Call them informed orientation of the subsconcscious and conscious mind...

Then pretending using blind test to reveal bias in the sense of unfounded and meaningless habits that oriented our choices is very delicate because there exist also bias that are meaningful and founded on real meaning and knowledge process acquisition...


Then the range of application of blind test is only ERASING the presence of ANY bias in a test for small change or for statistical methodology....

Not for proving that the taste for stradivarius is meaningless and non sense habit reflecting only arbitrary bias like the taste of a supposed deluded audiophile....

Erasing biases from an experiment CANNOT prove that the biases eliminated were all non sense choices or deceptives one EVER to begins with....This is science fact.... The other interpretation is cheap scientist ideology ....

Blind test are useful not for PROVING anything, it is ONLY a tool to eliminate human choices for statistical reason....

Any other use is childish epistemology.....Or epistemology for fanatic.... Pick you choice....

That’s one of the ironies about the measurementalists here. They’ll even often refuse to listen to test whether their theories are valid - they have that much faith in their belief system.

The other irony: The measurementalists frequently apply ill logic to their claims, so it makes meaningful conversation with them virtually impossible. Many of these measurementalists are here solely to argue, so these apparent inconsistencies suit them just fine.

For sure you are right on the sensible spot.....

For example if we read one of this childish fanatic:

I do enjoy the mental gymnastics to attempt to wave away bias. Bias exists. Period. Only way to eliminate is to blind test. Take weeks, just do it blind. You don’t have magical powers.

He accuse people to refuse to eliminate their own experience, learning, knowledge, because of the blind test....

He does not realize that using blind test can never make all bias equal, founded and unfounded one, the test can erase them in "artificial conditions" useful statistically but meaningless to decide if some bias are meaningful and others not... And THIS is the important point....

He want to prove that all audiophiles perceptions are pure deceptive "taste" unfounded in reality....Then he devise a blind test supposed to reveal that... But no blindtest coud scientifically do that.... Erasing biases they can do it....Proving that ALL biases are meaningless they cannot do it by virtue of being blind choices in "artificial" conditions....

Frogman only insist on that point... But it sems that this distinction ask for too much brain power to be grasped by some....

Audio2design accuse audiophiles to boast their magical power.... It is a straw man argument so big that explaining it, is like explainig philisophy to babies... Anyway... I will explain it shortly: any audiophile like any violin player has a set of subtles acquired perceptives habits that are powerful tool but ONLY in a specfic environment and with some very usual and known parameters...Changing them provoke most of the times the lost of the acquired perceiving knowledge...Stres, unusual conditions, any modifications....


Then erasing bias is science statiscally sound method, using it to PROVE anything is no more science...
The strategy of audio2design is childish.... To say the least....

**** You assume the new instrument is easier to play. That’s a false assumption even just for the nature of the instruments tested. You assume they won’t get better on the new instrument as well, again a false assumption. You assume that playing ability can coax a change in the fundamental sonic characteristics which is not guaranteed and again assumes the old instrument must have hidden capability. All instruments were played blind. No one even knew what they were playing. ****

As I have encouraged you to do previously, please read my comments more carefully. Your comments and knee jerk contradictions demonstrate a very simplistic and frankly, sophomoric grasp of all this. Not a good thing, especially for someone who claims to be in the business of capturing the sounds that we are talking about.

I have performed with what must be literally hundreds of professional string players over the years in various orchestras and other professional ensembles; never mind, other types of instrumentalists. I have spoken at length to many of these on the subject; it is what musicians do, constantly and sometimes to a fault. What I wrote is absolutely true; not in every single case, but often the case. The same principle applies to many other families of instruments. Some professionals do, in fact, prefer the ease of play or other traits of some modern instruments; many do not. Many players seek out the special qualities that some of these old instruments possess and is why they are willing to pay those prices.

What is your experience playing an instrument in a professional capacity and how often have you had the opportunity to discuss this issue with accomplished professional players? Opportunity knocks.

The OP mentions his wonderful experience listening to Nigel Kennedy perform live. Does anyone think that an artist of this caliber cares more about the cache of playing a rare instrument such as his Guarneri more so than playing the instrument that is best for him and his artistic vision; and, is willing to compromise his artistry (and pocket book) by playing an instrument that is not? Anyone who believes that simply doesn’t understand what musicians do. There is a running joke among players about receiving payment or other renumeration for endorsing and “playing” a particular brand of new instrument while playing his/her vintage instrument when performing.

What's saddest of all is not accepting Fritz when he acknowledges how his bias influences him.

If you know it’s a Strad, you will hear it differently," Fritz says. "And you can’t turn off that effect."

 I'm not locked in a mindset I simply took Fritz at his word , maybe I'm mistaken and you were saying Fritz is locked in a mindset not me, if so I apologize.

What is even sadder, IMO, is to be locked in a mindset that says that reactions are the result of bias and to refuse to be open minded about the possibility that it is not bias at all that is at play.