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Moving up the Harbeth line

I was fortunate to move my home office to another room which is a bit bigger than the previous one. Dimensions are 12x13 with almost 20-foot ceilings. As much as I love my Harbeth P3esr's, I can't help but notice that they've been outclassed by the bigger room, especially the high ceiling. This pair of speakers has been a mainstay in my home office/study for a number of years, and I find it to be a perfect fit for my listening habits and music preferences. But in the new setting, it's not able to fill the room as well as it used to. For examples, horns and piano now sound much smaller and distant. So that got me thinking of an upgrade. I have been using a Raven Audio Blackhawk MK3 for a few months and would want to stick with it if possible. There are very few speakers that have allowed me to make an emotional connection with the music, and Harbeth is certainly one of them. So my preference is to stay with the brand.

Now, before the 'search bar is your best friend' folks come swinging at me, I have read a few threads on similar topics but they all seem to be inconclusive, or at least I'm not able to decipher a reasonable consensus. Having spent way too much money on this addiction, err, hobby, in the last 12 months, I have to resort to buying used equipment only, and that too has to wait for at least 2-3 months. So, doing an in-house demo is going to be difficult if not impossible. And, AFAIK, there are no dealers nearby (Dallas area) either.

I would love to hear from people who have moved up the Harbeth food chain. The M30.x seems to be a logical next step, but I see an equal number of negative opinions (too polite, too boxy, pipe and slippers) as positive ones. Is there anyone who thinks that the M30 retains the same magic as the P3esr's but serves it in relatively bigger portions? Because that's what I'm mainly looking for to be honest -- a bigger version of P3esr. Or do you think the cons negate the pros offered by the bigger cabinet size?

Next up is SHL5+. Again, the opinions vary widely. Some are saying that this particular model deviates the most from the classic Harbeth sound. Another concern is that my room might be too small for them (?). Also, I cannot pull them more than one and a half feet from the front wall. Is that going to result in ugly bass problems?

I'm not against trying another brand, but would prefer an opinion that is based on an actual comparison with Harbeth speakers.
128x128arafiq
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arafiq OP
1,681 posts
 
@twoleftears -- the panels are from GIK Acoustics, and are supposed to be a diffuser/absorber combo ....

https://www.gikacoustics.com/product/impression-4inch-bass-trap-diffusor-absorber/

The ones that I lowered are situated on the side wall just a few inches ahead of the speakers where the first refection points are. Once I get proper stands, I will adjust the height again. 

The sound signature still has the Harbeth family resemblance, but you were right that the 30 and 40 are voiced differently from the rest of the siblings. I know I need to be more patient and give the SHL5+ proper respect in terms of stands and placement before forming an opinion. I went through the same exercise with P3esr's.

audiopacer
17 posts
 
@arafiq As it turned out, I got a pair of Harbeth SHL5+ XD and so far I like them immensely; I am having a wonderful time listening to music!! The system, with these speakers, presents a compelling and complete natural sound; I remarked to a fellow audio nut, that I was brought to goosebumps & tears whilst listening to Beethoven's 9th Symphony (Telarc label)-- something that has not happened in ages with my many recent systems; These are gorgeous sounding speakers and I keep going back to - the sound is "right"

-sorry for the double post - I figured moving to your Harbeth thread better than my now deprecated SF post, lol;

FWIW, I got them setup with the TonTrager stands;
room is 13.5ft x 16ft x 9ft and the speakers are set on the window side of the room, which consists of a bay type bump out about 2 feet deep (starts at 8 feet centered in width of the room, and angles back to window which is 4 feet wide and set back about 2 feet);
Floors are hickory and there is a small area rug; The bass becomes sucked out and lean as I move to the center of the room, and is perfect as I move closer to the speakers, and then again further back from center;
I am 100% sure if I did a freq sweep in the various spots in the room the results would confirm the obviousness of the peaks/nulls in this particular space; Where I have found the best sound is about 2/3 back; here the quality of bass (clean/tight impact as well as low extension- I can hear and feel 30Hz ) is excellent. Transients, especially snare drum are so cleanly rendered I am just amazed; The whole enchilada, however, is stunning; When I had the 40.2 they were in a different room (big open basement with carpet on concrete, basement open plan about 35 x 40 x 8.5) and with totally different electronics, but there the results were basically not that great; This is not to say the SHL5+XD are better than the 40.2 in absolute terms; more like the speaker/room synergy matters massively as well as supporting gear, but definitely room trumps all; 
Once the basement remodel is complete (closing off a section to make a new room 14.5 x 21 x 8.5) I'll try it all down there;



arafiq's avatar
arafiq OP
1,681 posts
 
@audiopacer -- thanks for sharing the details about placement. I am having the stands being built this week and hope to pick them up over the weekend. I'm really loving the speakers but the bass is still an issue. Of course, the speakers are sitting on an audio rack which is barely 8-10 inches off the floor. Hopefully, the new 18 inch stands will solve the problem. BTW, are you using a sub with the speakers?
jjss49's avatar
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jjss49
6,612 posts
 
arafiq

1) shl5 too much for that room 12x13... they need 30-36 in around rear and sides to not bloat

2) tube amps on shl5 will exacerbate the bloat problem, lack of damping factor/current - too much mush not enough clarity and control - esp 6L6 ravens, weak tubes insufficient leverage through the transformers

3) i have shl5+ and the best amp is the hegels 190 or 390 - tremendous damping factor, reigns in the bass makes the woofer play nice never overshoot - furthermore, ultra smooth treble of the hegels mate perfectly with c7 shl5 tweeters which are a touch more lively than mon series which are rather rolled off both high and low

4) mon 30’s are ok but are too rolled off for me... not a full range speaker - maybe with rels they work well - to me they are a vocals and violins/violas specialty speaker left alone unsupported from below

5) given your room dimensions, the right speaker (sans sub) is the c7 -- paired with hegel, for same reasons as above (or pass or ayre, same ultra smoothness and lack of bloat but lil less damping factor than hegels) -- what you heard briefly in the c7 somewhere else was not proper implementation of c7’s

good luck have fun... seems like you are already :)


arafiq's avatar
arafiq OP
1,681 posts
 
@jjss49 The SHL5+ are for my media room which is 20 x 15 x 12. They are 4 feet from the front wall and 3 from each side wall. I think the bass issue is because they’re not sitting on proper stands.I have them on audio racks which are barely 8-9 inches off the floor and too wide. I’m currently driving them with Luxman 590 axii. Hoping to get proper open style wooden stands in a few days which will be 18 inch tall as recommended by Harbeth. Let’s see if that solves the problem. 
The 30.1s are in my home office which is 12 x 13. I am using a rel sub in this room and to me they sound amazing when I try them with the Luxman. They still sound good with the Blackhawk but nowhere near as good as with the Luxman. I might try a Hegel in the near future as it’s high on my list of components to try. 
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