to buy or not to buy (ultrasonic record cleaner)

@barnettk - please let us know your impressions of the sonics before and after using the Degritter, maybe comparing it to your previous cleaning process

You know I will ;)

I have been using a Nitty-Gritty machine since they hit the market in the early 80's and it was way better than using a Discwasher brush alone.  I noticed that the NG brush left longitudinal scratches on the records that the stylus apparently does not pick up, but I was never happy with the idea of physical contact between the vinyl and a brush of any kind.  I heard about US cleaners on this forum and that sounded like a better way to clean.  There seems to be a couple of basic designs of ways to hold the records while in the water.  Some have a separate vertical spindle that holds the rotator motor and it adjusts up and down and also swivels.  Others attach to the sides of the US tank.  I've seen some that hold 12 records at a time requiring a large US tank .  I picked the Vinylstack device that holds 3 records at a time and a 6L US tank.  I also built a vacuuming nozzle out of plexiglass that directs forced air along the face of the records.  I use a wet-vac machine attached to my home made nozzle.  The air flow is not high enough to suck the water off the records, but does speed up the evaporation process.  I found that records dry in about an hour just sitting in free air and my nozzle dries them in about 15 minutes.  It depends on how powerful of a wet-vac machine you want to buy.  I use 1.5 gallons of distilled water with about 10ml of 91% isopropyl alcohol just to retard bacteria and mold growth in the water and a few drops of Dawn for a surfactant.  I did a test for a point of diminishing returns on the time in the water and found that about 15 minutes seemed to work, so I clean for 20 minutes and dry for 15 so I can be cleaning records and drying them at the same time with 5 minutes to repackage clean records and get 3 more ready for the cleaner.  You will get a "scum line" on the records when you remove them from the water.  It's easy to remove the scum and when it gets pretty bad I change the water.  At less than $1 pre gallon it's no big deal.

As for the sound difference after cleaning, it does what I need it to do.  I have noticed two issues that I determined were due to dirty groves.  The first thing I noticed was an increase in sibilance distortion and the second was a midrange graininess or gritty sound to voices male or female.  The sibilance is of course a natural part of the human voice (the "s" sound) but what I noticed was a distortion or exaggerated sound that seemed to come from the speakers instead of the location (typically centered) of the singer.  The US cleaning seems to have taken care of most of these two issues.  It will not make a used scratchy sounding record sound new again.  I suspect this is due to physical damage to the record surface from elastic collisions between particles and the stylus that leaves microscopic gouges in the groove surface that the stylus picks up when playing the record.  I've got about $500 in the stuff not including the wet-vac.  Considering I spent $250 on my Nitty-Gritty machine in the early eighties, $500 is not that bad and way less that a Degritter.  I would do it again.

I have a KLAudio for a few years. Very happy with that. Bought a Keith Monks Discovery. I think I need both.

Lots of time of my hands today; so, decided to check in on this thread. Have to admit I’m still interested in the Degritter, even though I’m still happy with my CleanerVinyl system, Knosti, Last record preservative and Last Power Cleaner in my cleaning regimen. Very satisfied and impressed with the results. Regardless, the Degritter seems faster and more convenient, despite the fact that it’s one record at a time.

I’ve been doing a lot of reading & research on record cleaning, in general, but especially US cleaning. (BTW: Thank You So Muh, whart, for that excellent article by Neil Antin! I consider this required reading, now, for anyone interested in record cleaning!) As part of my reading & research on US cleaning, I wrote (emailed) to lots of experts on this, including several leading major manufacturers of ultrasonic cleaning machines used for medical applications and semi-conductor manufacturing. I asked what I hoped would be a simple question (i.e. what is the best cleaning frequency for PVC record cleaning?).

I’ve learned that It isn’t the size of the bubbles created by cavitation but the force generated by their implosion that does the actual cleaning. So, even if the bubbles aren’t small enough to get down to the very bottom of the record grooves, it doesn’t matter. My concern was (and still is) the immediate cleaning efficacy and possible long term effects on the structural integrity of the PVC and record grooves, if any, at different power & cleaning frequencies, especially if records are US cleaned more than once. I posed this question to Degritter several months ago and never got a response of any kind. Professional audiophile reviewers that I would have considered somewhat knowledgeable on this were somewhat noncommittal, if they responded at all. The manufacturers, on the other hand, people who are bona fide scientists, responded to my inquiries relatively quickly. All of them were very careful to stipulate they or their companies had never done any scientific research on US cleaning as applied to PVC records but most were confident the standard 40kHz cleaning frequency should be safe and effective.

The Degritter employs a 120kHz/300 watts frequency because they say they found this to be the most effective and safe. I asked them for any data or nonproprietary information they could share to prove or support this claim. Nothing! No response! All they really had to do or could have done was describe, in general terms, just how they went about testing this, what frequencies they tried, etc. Nothing! I’ve read all their promotional advertisements & claims, seen the before & after electron microscope shots and all of that but no response. Really? Doesn’t exactly engender the kind of confidence I would need to part with 3 grand for this machine. I’ve seen electron microscope shots of record albums cleaned with other US machines using different frequencies. Same results. So, if any of you folks have any information on this question, I would sure love to have a look. Call me Doubting Thomas but for 3 grand, I need to see, at least, a preponderance of evidence. I’d also be interested in various cleaning solutions. Some "experts" say no alcohol under any circumstances! However, some say just a little alcohol in the right proportion, of course, is necessary, especially to remove mold release agents. Seems different solutions for different types of soils are what works best here. I’ve also read some articles about using a variety of different US cleaning frequencies during the cleaning process works best, as well.

As that cute little elderly lady used to say in those Wendy’s commercials: "Where’s the beef?" Well, where’s the science? Where’s the proof? Too much of this audiophile game is more smoke & mirrors than it needs to be or should be.

BTW: brand new records should be cleaned before play because of mold release agents used in pressing. Just thought I’d shoot that out there.