What do we hear when we change the direction of a wire?

When certain audiophiles say "trust your ears", they really don’t mean that. They say it. They probably say it 10-20 times a day on these forums. But they prove over and over they don’t mean it. If they really meant it, then they would not take every single opportunity they can to discourage blind testing. You can’t honestly mean "trust you ears" while you discourage blind testing. You are being dishonest with yourself and other audiophiles.

I dont discourage blindtesting in SPECIAL occasion like some marketing affirmation about cables...

But attacking people who spoke of their experience ALWAYS with mistrust because there is  no blindtesting behind is not science it is ridiculous...It is more easy and practical  to replicate their experience to verify than organize a rigorous and useless blindtest session...I replicate many "tweaks" without blindtest at no cost by the way....

I created my own "mechanical equalizer" with my ears, 32 tubes and pipes with orientable and adjustable necks, i fine tuned them like someone finetuned a piano...Do a piano tuner need to be blindtested?

Results: the voices of singers comes from my back when the orchestra play behind the speakers in front of me in some recordings...
The wood sound in the middle of my room and and the strings behind my speakers in my version of Bach orchestral suite...

Who said 3-d sound OUT of the speakers is impossible filling ALL the room ? He is wrong... It is called psychoacoustic....It is also a science...

Did i need blindtesting all my steps in the few weeks needed to fine tune them? Or for each embeddings controls i used in the last 2 years? No.... Save when occured some small audible change borderline case in some occasions thats all....My biases are there but an hallucination dissipate when you act on it, like a city mirage vanish itself when walking toward it... Simple... Biases are not only something to erase anyway, it is also in the case of learned musicians somthing to cultivate by the way....All biases are not equal...


Advocating blindtest is interesting to assess statistical facts in the industry like pharmacology and erasing human biases or debunking or making publicity for a product.... Using it to debunk systematically ALL audiophiles claims and calling that science is sunday club scientism.....Thanks.... And anyway a rigorous protocol is usable ONLY in exceptional circonstance... Then using that for argument is childish saturday scout science...

I will wait for an official blindtest for some cables with interest but dont call that science....Or call James Randi nobel prize in physics... Many products dont need blindtest to reveal their effect without doubts anyway...only a listening session...

Dividing people between subjectivist and objectivist is pure stupidity... Not science.... It is astounding that people buy these useless distinction and argue about that....

Correlating measures with human perception in audio is a science called psychoacoustic..... Negating measures value is stupid.... More stupid perhaps reducing All there is to some measured known chosen parameters.... In the 2 case science is lost...Only technology need static facts, science need plastic brain....

Jonathan Swift already wrote about that centuries ago... He called that the big egg end party against the little egg end party....

Results: the voices of singers comes from my back when the orcjhestra play behind the speakers in front of me...

One day you will research how we determine how we determine the location of sound, front to back, and realize that what you describe, is at best illusory, heavily influenced by preconception, and if true, would cause all vocals to do this, whether that is in the original recording or not, and probably causes a lot of the instrument sounds to have a false location. That is not what I would consider a positive result. You can create all kinds of illusions for a given set of speakers, in a given room, with a given set of reflectors, diffusers, absorbers, that will work for one effect, on one recording and create chaos with anything else. This is not news, but can be fun.

 Advocating blindtest is interesting to assess statistical facts or debunking or making publicity for a product.... Callint that science is sunday club scientism.....

You may, just may, want to read the title of the thread you are posting in and consider whether your statement makes any sense at all?  You have gone on and on about acoustics in a thread that is about cable direction, a topic that screams exactly for blind testing, whether the claim is made by a manufacturer (it has been in this thread) or by someone who could be misleading others (or not).

dletch2

This has nothing to do with science, but more to do with faith.

Agreed!

One group is honest with itself and does not rely on the "faith" that they are infallible, while the other group does. No more, no less.

True, to a point. The Naysayer Doctrine (the measurementalist approach) does very much acknowledge that we humans are fallible and our senses prone to deception. Good for you! But then the measurementalists insist the doctrine is perfect and infallible; hence, those in conflict with the doctrine are labeled as deluded, insane, confused, stupid, and the like.

You can special plead science that does not exist, or not. It really does not matter.

Call it what you like, but it does clearly matter very, very much to you. That’s consistent with your evangelism and why you’ve made more than 80 posts here since joining just a week ago. And it’s why you’ve been banned from the group multiple times under your previous user names. Your proselytizing insults really get old.

You can’t honestly mean "trust you ears" while you discourage blind testing. You are being dishonest with yourself and other audiophiles.

There’s another example of how those who claim science and reason as being on their side commit some of the most confounding acts of ill logic along the way.

I don’t discourage blind testing, by the way. But neither have I adopted it as a religion or accepted it as my personal savior.

cleeds,


Your post is insulting, dogmatic, and adds nothing to the discussion. It is nothing but a rant. Your constant insults to me and others with attempted insults like "measurementalist", "naysayer doctrine", etc. is tired, old, and useless. Your deflection to bring up measurements in attempted refutation of something that did not mention measurements is an exercise in personal futility.


Do you have anything at all of value to add to this conversation? It is about wire direction. If it exists as an audible effect, the effect will be small. If you claim you can reliably pick out very small differences without bias, then you are not being honest with yourself or your fellow audiophiles. Is that fair?


A simple question.  Why do you feel the need to oppose blind testing. Blind testing can do nothing, absolutely nothing but improve the quality of SUBJECTIVE testing. It has absolutely nothing to do with measurements. Not even a little. It is exclusively the domain of subjective impression. 

One day you will research how we determine how we determine the location of sound, front to back, and realize that what you describe, is at best illusory, heavily influenced by preconception, and if true, would cause all vocals to do this, whether that is in the original recording or not, and probably causes a lot of the instrument sounds to have a false location.

Human perception is not illusory in the absolute sense...

And for sure this files comes from an excellent studio recording where the singers walked and turn their head singing.... what i listen to was an acoustical recreation of what was the intention of the recording engineer....It is a theater play not static singing...

For sure in many recording the instrument dont have a true location....

But my sound effect is not 2-d and lifeless....

That is the point...

You can create all kinds of illusions for a given set of speakers, in a given room, with a given set of reflectors, diffusers, absorbers, that will work for one effect, on one recording and create chaos with anything else. This is not news, but can be fun.

Sorry here your affirmation is not my expoerience ...

All my recordings files are not in chaos they are more livelier 3-D and filled the room...

This result by the way is not obtained by MAINLY and ONLY a balance between diffusive, reflecting, and absorbing surfaces BUT by my use with my "mechanical equalizer" and the locations very precise of the 32 tubes and pipes inhabiting my room and transforming completely the zones pressure distribution...

I had the idea discussing with you in a disagrement that was a great luck for me when we argue about imaging concept.... You forgot? Anyway i cannot thank you enough for the discussion...