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Speakers The single most critical component

I know we've been over this Q hundreds of X's over the past 20 years here on audion, You can find dozen of topics dealing with this Q <which is the ,,,,most important component...>>
well time for yet 1 more topic dealing with this,, perhaps unanswered, un-resolved issue.
I'm bringing up the old hachet due to my recent experience acutally hearinga FR in my system. 
Let me tell you, there is not even 1 traditional/conventioanl/xover design <The Boxed Type>> in the world that could convince me  , there is something that will beat out FR (caveat, FR requires  some sort of high sens =sensitivity, tweeter)  in  the Boxy world of speakers.
That is to say, FR + Compression Horn is the future of 21st Century high fidelity. 
One lab has already brought us these ~~~SHF~~~ aka SuperHighFidelity  single drivers. 
The code word here is ~~SHF~~~ which can not never be employed when describing xover/trad/conventioanl style  aka The Box designs. db level under 91 are _<<IN-EFFICIENT>> , = dysfunctional, out dated, old school , = Dinasaurs. 
For amps, I only consider tube amps (PP and SET) as ~~SHF~~~ I can not include ss amps in this topic. 
IMHO all well made tube amps sound very close,
 a  kt88 in brand X will sound  close to brand Y. 
So amplification takes a  distant 2nd place in critical component.  No need to break the bank buying amp A vs  a  lower priced kt88 amp B
CD players, nearly all  tube DAC's , tube cdp-ers sound  close. No need to braek the bank over X vs Y.
My Jadis DAC is  only miniscule gain over the Shanling,
 the Shanling
only a  miniscule gain over the Cayin CD17. 
Now as for  best source  , phonograph is the ideal playback medium vs cds. 
I have some LP's now , but my main collection are classical cds, most not on LP version. Cables , I did note some gains employing silver/copper wiring throughout my entire system including inside the Defy.
Tweak worthy.
New Mundorf caps in all componets, tweak worthy. 
Yet the main central component remaisn the speakers.
Here is where  the entire audio resolution either rises to Nirvana or falls to <<distortion/muddy waters,/pollution/anti-fidelity  voicing  issues.
Your system's fidelity is ultimately dependent on what speaker  you have chosen to employ.
Forget all you've learned over the years, 
The new mantra is <,The speaker is key component>
All else is just extra tweaks/nuances. 
To sum up, a  ~~SHF~~ driver will match even the top of line Wilson weighing in at hundreds of lbs priced $$$$$$$ overa single FR driver. 
FR beats out any/all xover box design speakers. Mostly due to that key specification ~~db level~~~ which is everything in speaker design and thus in resolution/fidelity. 

mozartfan
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
You could rename this thread ‘One Giant Advertisement for Voxativ Horns

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
can't
Ines  the speakers engineer at Voxativ, just emailed me, Says my Defy7 is <<NOT>> a  match for Vox drivers. 
I told her, well being half german, i have a  bit of bull head, = Sinatra's I DID IT my way.
So inspite of Richard and Ines suggestion, that the PP amplification is not <, The Ideal> match for the Vox, I plan to  go through with the Vox project sometime next year, 
After I recoop my huge $1800 loss in the recent thor upgrade. Camn't give em away.
There is no demand for speakers at the moment, Thought I'd let you guys know, What you buy new, at  purchase you just lost 50% market value and will havea  very hard time selling.

So in the meantime.
A guy in lafayette La just wrote that his exp of the LII fast 8 was stunning, so for $230 I just ordered the LII Fast 8 which will hold me over til i can recoop some audio budget cash and add the Voxatic ...Let me  get these numbers correct,,Its their entry model 
~~~AC-1A~~~
That will be next year, as i have dental bills.
anyway, I will post a Youtube vid once I build cabinets.
At $230 a  pair, + $60 Home Depot snaded plywood, this will be a  nice experiement in Full range with PP amplification. I notec there are a few PP + LII  Fast8 on Youtube. 
Ines might be as Richard Gray;s opinion, which is as old as the hills, SET + FR = Perfection. 
thing is, from the YT vids I've heard of SET amps, I really did not care for any of the SET. 
Besides can a  SET amp, voice thick, rich, full, very complex ( Schnittke, Pettersson, Carter) with the ~~Dynamics~~ Details, speed, clarity, bass, highs that I  hear in the KT88's...??
I just don't think so. So far I'm not impressed with SET's in clasical music. 

I will upload a  YT vid on the Diatone + Vifa clone DavidLouis today, You make the call.
I know well witha  compression TI Horn, we will have even superior soundstage in the uppers. 
A Vifa Neodynium, as good as it is, is no match for a  TI Compression horn.
btw this topic now has over 
~~~4000~~~ views. 
Folks are curious  in this old tech xover/box traditional speaker vs FR shootout will end.
Once you have heard a  FR, you will never ever go back to xover/box traditional speakers. 
herman
2,260 posts
 
The notion that there is only one right approach, which implies only one correct set of priorities, is unreasonable. I am a fan of extremely dynamic speakers, such as full-range, full-range used as wide range drivers in multiway systems, and horn-based systems. But, there is no one approach that does everything right and so we all pick our favored set of compromise

Completely agree, which brings us full circle to the original point of this thread which is "most critical component" which to me means the one component you must start with ........ again

we all pick our favored set of compromises

so the one component that has the largest number of inherent weaknesses that must be overcome or lived with,  the one  with the largest number of differences in performance from model to model, the one that must be most carefully chosen to integrate into the given room, the one which forces us to make the  largest number of compromises is the speaker...  so therefore, one must start with speakers that meet their criteria then build from there i.e. speakers are the most critical component.

Mahgister has been relentless in his posts about his room and I appreciate his passion, but optimizing the room does not fit with the idea above about picking the most critical component because most of us don't have the luxury of picking our room. We do pick our speakers. So I'm fine with the idea that the room is critically important when optimizing your system, but it does not fit with the idea of picking the most critical component because again, most don't pick their room.

My philosophy which has served me well is you have to start somewhere and build around it otherwise you will be constantly changing one thing to make up for a difference in another. You need a solid foundation to build on. You need one constant in your system to build on.... buy the best speakers you can afford to meet your preferences then go from there. I've had the same speakers for almost 20 years with no desire to change.. everything else has changed and most many times. 

Which leads me to me final point. Most of this thread has been people talking past each other because they are talking about different things. "Weakest Link" and "room optimization" and "garbage in/out" and "speaker differences" and "everything matters" and "most critical component" and all the rest are all valid considerations, but even though it is all intertwined, they are different considerations. 

If you have a different definition for "critical component " then the points above don't apply.
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,191 posts
 
Mahgister has been relentless in his posts about his room and I appreciate his passion, but optimizing the room does not fit with the idea above about picking the most critical component because most of us don’t have the luxury of picking our room. We do pick our speakers. So I’m fine with the idea that the room is critically important when optimizing your system, but it does not fit with the idea of picking the most critical component because again, most don’t pick their room.
You are completely right...

I will only add that i speak about "transforming" a dedicated room which is available...

No need to own an ideal room at all...You can pick anyone...A living room would not did for me save a very high cost for the esthetical devices....

In my experience ANY room can be transformed at low cost but we must have a room ONLY for audio...

If not then yes speakers matter the most....

My deepest respect and regards....
dletch2
455 posts
 
I think acoustic panels can be considered components, and they add to a room. Two well placed $200 panels will impact a system more than $20,000 of cables. 
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,191 posts
 
I think acoustic panels can be considered components, and they add to a room. Two well placed $200 panels will impact a system more than $20,000 of cables.
I am glad to concur with this advice....Save for the fact that i know for sure that you dont give much credit to cables upgrade in pure S.Q. improvement like myself to a point ... Then i must take your post with a pinch of salt.... Anyway i concur with you for their usefulness... i will only add that sometimes adding panels is better than a new costly amplifier upgrade.....
😊

Now i try to calculate what we must pay for a  benefit in upgrade on par with  my active room tuner the mechanical Helmholtz equalizer?

In all audio thread acoustic is the sleeping princess.... But all people bet on the working dwarves....
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