What do we hear when we change the direction of a wire?


Douglas Self wrote a devastating article about audio anomalies back in 1988. With all the necessary knowledge and measuring tools, he did not detect any supposedly audible changes in the electrical signal. Self and his colleagues were sure that they had proved the absence of anomalies in audio, but over the past 30 years, audio anomalies have not disappeared anywhere, at the same time the authority of science in the field of audio has increasingly become questioned. It's hard to believe, but science still cannot clearly answer the question of what electricity is and what sound is! (see article by A.J.Essien).

For your information: to make sure that no potentially audible changes in the electrical signal occur when we apply any "audio magic" to our gear, no super equipment is needed. The smallest step-change in amplitude that can be detected by ear is about 0.3dB for a pure tone. In more realistic situations it is 0.5 to 1.0dB'". This is about a 10% change. (Harris J.D.). At medium volume, the voltage amplitude at the output of the amplifier is approximately 10 volts, which means that the smallest audible difference in sound will be noticeable when the output voltage changes to 1 volt. Such an error is impossible not to notice even using a conventional voltmeter, but Self and his colleagues performed much more accurate measurements, including ones made directly on the music signal using Baxandall subtraction technique - they found no error even at this highest level.

As a result, we are faced with an apparently unsolvable problem: those of us who do not hear the sound of wires, relying on the authority of scientists, claim that audio anomalies are BS. However, people who confidently perceive this component of sound are forced to make another, the only possible conclusion in this situation: the electrical and acoustic signals contain some additional signal(s) that are still unknown to science, and which we perceive with a certain sixth sense.

If there are no electrical changes in the signal, then there are no acoustic changes, respectively, hearing does not participate in the perception of anomalies. What other options can there be?

Regards.
anton_stepichev

bobandcindy101
62 posts
04-23-2021 9:43pm
Since audio is an AC waveform; you hear EXACTLY the same thing as before you swapped ends.



No. You hear the same thing because the differences in direction are too small. AC has nothing to do with it.
Seriously, Some things cannot be measured as accurately as bio sense. Example, a dogs smell is more sensitive than any current instrument. Because it cannot be measured does not mean it is not there.



This is audiogon. You must have confused it with smellogon, the other website.
Reality is never what we assumed it is....

Science exist and demonstrate it for us...With new concepts but also new methods of investigation...

«Are wind farms harmful to humans? Some believe so, others refute this; this controversial topic makes emotions run high. To give the debate more objectivity, an international team of experts dealt with the fundamentals of hearing in the lower limit range of the audible frequency range (i.e. infrasound), but also in the upper limit range (i.e. ultrasound). The project, which is part of the European Metrology Research Programme (EMRP), was coordinated by the Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt (PTB). At PTB, not only acoustics experts, but also experts from the fields of biomagnetism (MEG) and functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) were involved in the research activities. They have found out that humans can hear sounds lower than had previously been assumed. And the mechanisms of sound perception are much more complex than previously thought.»

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150710123506.htm



This is not the vulgarisation above but the real paper :

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0174420

All that prove NOTHING for the audible detection of wire direction for sure...

But knowing that human can hear 8 hertz sound and above in the higher frequencies and knowing that the neural infrastructure of hearing implicate some area of the brain normally not associated with hearing says a lot....

Then  apriori ridiculizing  claim or  absolute negation about the real  limits of hearing in humans is serious... We dont know....

We dont know what hearing IS....

We sont know what a sound IS...

We use water in very sophisticated technology and we dont know what water is.... Saying water is H2O is not a complete explanation and certainly not an understanding...

We use light in laser technology but we dont know what light is...

We study the prime numbes and use them with very complicate and deep mathematical tools but we absolutely dont know what prime numbers are....

Then we must relax and think....

And making stupid joke while pretending we know something is child play...

The subject of this thread interest me a lot but i dont have any opinion for or against wire direction...

It is an experiment.... at least in thinking....It is interesting.... It is related to deep questions...

Idiots beware....
More seriously now and perhaps nearer to  our debate this is extraordinary:

«We’ve all heard of Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle. That puts a fundamental limit on the accuracy with which position and momentum of a particle can be simultaneously known. The more precision for one, the less for the other. There’s a similar idea in acoustics, called the Fourier Uncertainty Principle. Fourier Analysis, a commonly used mathematical method of deconstructing complex waves into their components, is the basis of this uncertainty principle. Unlike Heisenberg’s, it represents not an intrinsic property of the source, but a limit on the capabilities of linear algorithms to analyze it.
It deals with two properties of sound: frequency (or pitch) and timing. If you read music, you know that pitch is the vertical axis and timing the horizontal axis. According to the Fourier Uncertainty Principle, these two properties cannot be simultaneously determined above a limit, called the Gabor limit. This implies that the better two pitches can be distinguished, the less accurately the time between them can be known, and vice versa.
Tell that to the human brain. In a new paper in Physical Review Letters (free download on arXiv), Jacob N. Oppenheim and Marcello O. Magnasco of Rockefeller University tested human subjects and found “Human Time-Frequency Acuity Beats the Fourier Uncertainty Principle.“

The time-frequency uncertainty principle states that the product of the temporal and frequency extents of a signal cannot be smaller than 1/(4?). We study human ability to simultaneously judge the frequency and the timing of a sound. Our subjects often exceeded the uncertainty limit, sometimes by more than tenfold, mostly through remarkable timing acuity. Our results establish a lower bound for the nonlinearity and complexity of the algorithms employed by our brains in parsing transient sounds, rule out simple “linear filter” models of early auditory processing, and highlight timing acuity as a central feature in auditory object processing. (Emphasis added.)»

https://evolutionnews.org/2013/02/human_hearing_o/


This is the vulgarisation.... The real article is this:

https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.110.044301


All this is spectacular example of limitations alleged in the past and overcome....

We dont know what sound IS...

We dont understand human hearing ....

But science go on enlightening us about deepest and deepest imprevisible discoveries...


Seriously, Some things cannot be measured as accurately as bio sense. Example, a dogs smell is more sensitive than any current instrument. Because it cannot be measured does not mean it is not there.



This is audiogon. You must have confused it with smellogon, the other website.
what is the adress of this new site: "smellogon" ?

is this is from this site:

http://vosshall.rockefeller.edu/assets/file/BushdidScience2014.pdf

Or perhaps this one on forgotten abilities:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nn1819

Perhaps we must create Smellogon.com ourself and link it to audiogon...


Finally this article about polynesian "primitive" navigators about to "see" their routes around islands very afar in the pacific is astounding about the INTERNAL GPS of human and say a lot about underestimating the perception of humans

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/magazine/the-secrets-of-the-wave-pilots.html

an extract of this article that speak volume about the understimated human perceotive abilities....  :



«Genz met Alson Kelen and Korent Joel in Majuro in 2005, when Genz was 28. A soft-spoken, freckled Wisconsinite and former Peace Corps volunteer who grew up sailing with his father, Genz was then studying for a doctorate in anthropology at the University of Hawaii. His adviser there, Ben Finney, was an anthropologist who helped lead the voyage of Hokulea, a replica Polynesian sailing canoe, from Hawaii to Tahiti and back in 1976; the success of the trip, which involved no modern instrumentation and was meant to prove the efficacy of indigenous ships and navigational methods, stirred a resurgence of native Hawaiian language, music, hula and crafts. Joel and Kelen dreamed of a similar revival for Marshallese sailing — the only way, they figured, for wave-piloting to endure — and contacted Finney for guidance. But Finney was nearing retirement, so he suggested that Genz go in his stead. With their chief’s blessing, Joel and Kelen offered Genz rare access, with one provision: He would not learn wave-piloting himself; he would simply document Kelen’s training.

Joel immediately asked Genz to bring scientists to the Marshalls who could help Joel understand the mechanics of the waves he knew only by feel — especially one called di lep, or backbone, the foundation of wave-piloting, which (in ri-meto lore) ran between atolls like a road. Joel’s grandfather had taught him to feel the di lep at the Rongelap reef: He would lie on his back in a canoe, blindfolded, while the old man dragged him around the coral, letting him experience how it changed the movement of the waves.

But when Joel took Genz out in the Pacific on borrowed yachts and told him they were encountering the di lep, he couldn’t feel it. Kelen said he couldn’t, either. When oceanographers from the University of Hawaii came to look for it, their equipment failed to detect it. The idea of a wave-road between islands, they told Genz, made no sense.

Privately, Genz began to fear that the di lep was imaginary, that wave-piloting was already extinct. On one research trip in 2006, when Korent Joel went below deck to take a nap, Genz changed the yacht’s course. When Joel awoke, Genz kept Joel away from the GPS device, and to the relief of them both, Joel directed the boat toward land. Later, he also passed his ri-meto test, judged by his chief, with Genz and Kelen crewing.

Worlds away, Huth, a worrier by nature, had become convinced that preserving mankind’s ability to way-find without technology was not just an abstract mental exercise but also a matter of life and death. In 2003, while kayaking alone in Nantucket Sound, fog descended, and Huth — spring-loaded and boyish, with a near-photographic memory — found his way home using local landmarks, the wind and the direction of the swells. Later, he learned that two young undergraduates, out paddling in the same fog, had become disoriented and drowned. This prompted him to begin teaching a class on primitive navigation techniques. When Huth met Genz at an academic conference in 2012 and described the methodology of his search for the Higgs boson and dark energy — subtracting dominant wave signals from a field, until a much subtler signal appears underneath — Genz told him about the di lep, and it captured Huth’s imagination. If it was real, and if it really ran back and forth between islands, its behavior was unknown to physics and would require a supercomputer to model. That a person might be able to sense it bodily amid the cacophony generated by other ocean phenomena was astonishing.

Huth began creating possible di lep simulations in his free time and recruited van Vledder’s help. Initially, the most puzzling detail of Genz’s translation of Joel’s description was his claim that the di lep connected each atoll and island to all 33 others. That would yield 561 paths, far too many for even the most adept wave pilot to memorize. Most of what we know about ocean waves and currents — including what will happen to coastlines as climate change leads to higher sea levels (of special concern to the low-lying Netherlands and Marshall Islands) — comes from models that use global wind and bathymetry data to simulate what wave patterns probably look like at a given place and time. Our understanding of wave mechanics, on which those models are based, is wildly incomplete. To improve them, experts must constantly check their assumptions with measurements and observations. Perhaps, Huth and van Vledder thought, there were di leps in every ocean, invisible roads that no one was seeing because they didn’t know to look.... »