Holographic Soundstage ?


I would like to share my observation and hopefully get some input from people who have the same interest.

My system consist of Wharfedale Opus 3 , Krell KRC-3 preamp, Krell KSA 150 amp, Chord Qutest DAC and a computer with JCAT USB EX running Roon/with LPSU from HDPlex.
I mainly like holographic soundstage and would be able to achieve a very good 3D soundstaging with my current Krell setup.
I decided to try out tube amp a couple days ago because I read through the internet and everybody told me that tube amp always have better holographic soundstage and 3D imaging comparing to SS amp.
So I order a Raven Blackhawk MK3 from Raven audio with 45 days home trial just to try it out. I was expecting a very holographic soundstage that will blow my Krell out of the water.
Well, I was so WRONG. The Krell combo actually has a deeper and wider soundstage comparing to the Raven.
The Raven also has some very weak bass comparing to the Krell which is more punchy and tonally rich textured bass.
I cannot understand why it happens. I am always under the impression that tube amp will always provide more holographic soundstage. Obviously, In my set up the Krell is superior when it come to 3 dimensionality.

I will keeping trying out the Raven Blackhawk in the next couple of weeks and if things are not improved. I am ready to return the Raven and perhaps trying out the other tube amps (or solid state amps) that can beat the Krell combo.

If any one has some idea of such a product, please let me know. I am looking for an upgrade right now.

128x128viethluu
@grk7007 -- sure ok... whatever you say... 🙄 -- tis a modern miracle that people can type but they can’t read...

anyhow... op has plenty of ’advice’ now... good luck to him in his pursuit
In my experience the room's acoustics is perhaps the most important factor in soundstage imaging.  Side wall reflections can muddy an image as can sound waves coming from the rear wall and front corners.. Before I chased different equipment I'd tame the beast that your system lives in
In my experience the room’s acoustics is perhaps the most important factor in soundstage imaging. Side wall reflections can muddy an image as can sound waves coming from the rear wall and front corners.. Before I chased different equipment I’d tame the beast that your system lives in
exactly right...

Save the early and late reflections must be tamed not necessarily erased,but advanced or absorbed or retarded , they must be synchronized, then absorbing methods are relative to each situation and need to be experienced.... In my case i control all acoustic factors with also a controls of reflections from side and back.....We play with milliseconds factors here detectable by the listenings experiments...

Back reflections will play a positive role in listener envelopment factor this is demonstrated... All is a quesion of balance and timing thresholds....

Acoustic is not most think it is like buying costly materials and think they are done because the sound is good....

If you have not a room 3-d filled with sound NOT coming from spealers but an holographic volume encompassing and even including you in many recordings, you are not done.... And at the end instrument and voices timbre must sound natural ....
So....We are talking about swapping in a low powered tube amp for 150w krell.

The fact that any tube amp is delivering inferior bass compared to a Krell is not surprising.  No amount of burn in or time is going to fix that.  Krell is known for delivering elite, refined bass.  

Secondarily, I am not seeing measurement but with a 6 ohm nominal impedance, I wonder if it is well suited to being driven by a tube amp of any sort.  I am not finding good measurements anywhere but I wonder what the minimum impedance.

If a tube amp is struggling with driving a speaker, it is not going to sound good.  Imaging will stink.  Bass will be flabby and the overall experience will be more than underwhelming.  

I had a dreadful demo of a PrimaLuna Integrated and B&W 805 D3s.  They are a bad match.  The B&Ws simply are too difficult for the PrimaLuna to drive well.  I have heard those speakers sound great with a Naim amp.  I have heard that amp sound insanely good with Sccansonic speakers.  

The point here is, the Raven is an awesome amp and will deliver transcendant sound with something like Zu. It would never be my first choice to drive something like Wharfedale.  

@winstonwas1  The 845 Art Audio SET is the Carissa.  The Diavolo is a 300B.  Either are insanely good with horns.  I am an Avantgarde dealer because of Art Audio. Â