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Holographic Soundstage ?

I would like to share my observation and hopefully get some input from people who have the same interest.

My system consist of Wharfedale Opus 3 , Krell KRC-3 preamp, Krell KSA 150 amp, Chord Qutest DAC and a computer with JCAT USB EX running Roon/with LPSU from HDPlex.
I mainly like holographic soundstage and would be able to achieve a very good 3D soundstaging with my current Krell setup.
I decided to try out tube amp a couple days ago because I read through the internet and everybody told me that tube amp always have better holographic soundstage and 3D imaging comparing to SS amp.
So I order a Raven Blackhawk MK3 from Raven audio with 45 days home trial just to try it out. I was expecting a very holographic soundstage that will blow my Krell out of the water.
Well, I was so WRONG. The Krell combo actually has a deeper and wider soundstage comparing to the Raven.
The Raven also has some very weak bass comparing to the Krell which is more punchy and tonally rich textured bass.
I cannot understand why it happens. I am always under the impression that tube amp will always provide more holographic soundstage. Obviously, In my set up the Krell is superior when it come to 3 dimensionality.

I will keeping trying out the Raven Blackhawk in the next couple of weeks and if things are not improved. I am ready to return the Raven and perhaps trying out the other tube amps (or solid state amps) that can beat the Krell combo.

If any one has some idea of such a product, please let me know. I am looking for an upgrade right now.

128x128viethluu
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio
1,500 posts
 
So....We are talking about swapping in a low powered tube amp for 150w krell.

The fact that any tube amp is delivering inferior bass compared to a Krell is not surprising.  No amount of burn in or time is going to fix that.  Krell is known for delivering elite, refined bass.  

Secondarily, I am not seeing measurement but with a 6 ohm nominal impedance, I wonder if it is well suited to being driven by a tube amp of any sort.  I am not finding good measurements anywhere but I wonder what the minimum impedance.

If a tube amp is struggling with driving a speaker, it is not going to sound good.  Imaging will stink.  Bass will be flabby and the overall experience will be more than underwhelming.  

I had a dreadful demo of a PrimaLuna Integrated and B&W 805 D3s.  They are a bad match.  The B&Ws simply are too difficult for the PrimaLuna to drive well.  I have heard those speakers sound great with a Naim amp.  I have heard that amp sound insanely good with Sccansonic speakers.  

The point here is, the Raven is an awesome amp and will deliver transcendant sound with something like Zu. It would never be my first choice to drive something like Wharfedale.  

@winstonwas1  The 845 Art Audio SET is the Carissa.  The Diavolo is a 300B.  Either are insanely good with horns.  I am an Avantgarde dealer because of Art Audio.  
audiosaurusrex's avatar
audiosaurusrex
320 posts
 
So I was experiencing similar with my Spatial M3 Sapphires a speaker that is known for its holographic soundstage. Initially driving it with SS and while it sounded amazing I felt it was not really wowing me. I never owned a tube amp. I was looking at the Raven but felt that while the reviews and opinions were good I wasn’t crazy about the return 7% return policy. (Which I understand). I found a local audio shop that carries Octave amps and demoed the V40SE.  That was a huge part of revealing the holographic characteristic of the M3’s. The tube amp really brings out the midrange and that was where the holography “lives” IMO and tube amps excel at this. The Raven may need some time as others have said. 
fiesta75
1,378 posts
 
Did most of you see that the only thing he changed was the amp? A more powerful tube amp will help to control the drivers better, thus better sound. I'm not saying he needs the power for volume, but control. Play with the Raven up until the return date. Put as many hours on the amp as you can, playing music, not idling.
orosie's avatar
orosie
19 posts
 

sgreg1143 posts05-03-2021 7:52amRifraf4u
What i hear is no imagination and simple to figure out. Wifi can only transfer so much data and as it travels through walls ceilings floors and electrical fields that data is compromised. Hard wire does not have thst issue so when the data reaches the dac there is more clean data (sound) coming through.
This is truly comical.....
phd
1,324 posts
 
Keep your Krell amp and add a nice VTL tube preamp, you'll have all the holographic sound one could ask for.
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