Running LOMC with MM (47K) loading

Atmasphere,

Thank you for your explanation.  I understand that in the case of the speaker movement, that movement induces a current, which in turn, if you complete the circuit, creates a magnetic field that resists the movement of the speaker.  Could you expand further on the mechanism for resisting the motion of the cantilever?  Is it also the magnetic field generated by the coils in the cartridge?  As for conservation laws of simple physics, I can see the price being paid for the loading being paid by the electrical signal, but I don't quite understand why it has to be paid by resistance to the physical movement of the cantilever.

Jonathan Carr of Lyra, said, in a very long post in the What's Best Forum that when we load a cartridge;

"we don't affect what the cartridge does at all (unless the value of the load approaches or drops below the internal impedance of the cartridge).  What adding resistive loading at the phono stage input accomplishes is to dampen the resonant energy of the ultrasonic spike, and give the phono stage an operating environment that isn't so likely to trigger any latent non-linearity tendencies that the phono stage circuitry may have.  

For the reasons given, the phrase "cartridge load" is misleading.  "Phono stage input terminator" is a better description of what really happens."

I am wondering what aspects of his comments you agree with or disagree with.  I regard you both as experts in this field.

Thanks.

The reference was made to ECC81 to help explain why there may have been a need to use the VC at a full rotation.
The arrangement of Tubes and Brand Selection of Tubes used with the Phonostage are a result of it being Bespoke Produced for me with trials on other Tube Configurations and Brands having been undertaken.
ECC83's were rejected by myself as a Input Valve.
The design allows for the usage 83's, and I knew that the 83 would allow for more Gain with the LMOC.  
As said, the outcome of using the Cart Direct to Phonostge or via a SUT
has not created anything unwanted, when it comes to Sound Quality.
There are Two Presentations available from one Cartridge. 
 

Pindac,

I find it interesting that you experimented with lower gain tubes and use of a SUT and like that combination.  I think that there are many ways to achieve the sound one personally favors, and it is your own taste and matching to your particular system that matters (I tend to like SUT in phono setups myself).  I also agree that one can have quite different sound from two arrangements and one is not necessarily inferior to the other.  

I am curious as to why the ECC83 in the input stage did not work out sonically for you.  I've tried a few different ECC83/12AX7 tubes in my phono stage and they can sound dramatically different, so, perhaps it was the particular brand/vintage that did not work out for you.  I was lucky to have a friend who had a wide array of these tubes so I got to hear a number of vintage tubes.  I ended up getting Telefunken ECC 803S tubes (real vintage tubes, not fakes).  These tubes are certainly not for everyone's taste as they are leaner and brighter than many other vintage alternatives.

@larryi 
             I have a long experience with Valve Equipment.
For a person like myself, with sesitivities to certain perceived sounds that are catergorised as detractors as a result of a Sonic Trait.
I am very careful not to produce a Sound that draws my attention to a Sonic Trait that is noticeably present and not an attractor to the Sound Quality.
The Phonostage I was having produced was a ECC83 Input/Output as a Prototype.
It had a lot to offer and I heard it evolve with a couple of design changes to the Power Supply and exchanges of the Internal Components to Matched Boutique Parts.
I heard the model,that in the words of the designer / builder was a finished model, without much more to be done.

I informed the designer that it was possibly one of the best all Valve Phonostages I had heard.
I made it known that the ECC83 was causing me a concern.
There was something overbearing as a Sonic Trait and the Perceived Weight Underpinning the Music and Vocals are too much for my liking.
The Weight was quite noticeable, and the projection of the Mid's and Highs were subdued as a result.

There was a friction between myself and the designer, that had a very constructive conclusion.
Shortly after the last audition, I was offered a audition of the same Device with ECC81 Valves at the input stage.
I accepted this offer and the rest is history, with a couple of twweaks to the components and the ECC81's the Phonostage was now where I wished for it to be.

As a follow up to my receiving the Phonostage, another friend kindly offered to extend the fledgling experience, by making available a very attractive collection of Vintage Matched ECC81/ECC83 Configurations.

It was agreed the Phonostage would receive approx' 200 Hours of use, which was done through a Reverse RIAA and CDP on repeat.
 
The Designer /  Builder,  myself and a selection of members of my local HiFi Group were present on the day, to take part in the Vintage Tube Rolling experience on the Phonostage. 

The Tubes in use today by myself were unaminously agreed by the attendees, that from the permutations produced, the combination of the Valves I have in use were a stand out over the other arrangements.
The options on permutations on this day were quite vast, so not all were achievable. 
One thing that is recollected quite strongly, is that particular valves that were thought to be quite capable, did not Pop into the Limelight with a
 X Factor during this Tube Rolling session. 

As said I can use ECC83's at the Input without any concern for the Phonostage.
I have not felt the need to return to a configuration I struggled with at an earlier date.    

we don't affect what the cartridge does at all (unless the value of the load approaches or drops below the internal impedance of the cartridge). What adding resistive loading at the phono stage input accomplishes is to dampen the resonant energy of the ultrasonic spike, and give the phono stage an operating environment that isn't so likely to trigger any latent non-linearity tendencies that the phono stage circuitry may have.  

For the reasons given, the phrase "cartridge load" is misleading. "Phono stage input terminator" is a better description of what really happens."

I am wondering what aspects of his comments you agree with or disagree with. I regard you both as experts in this field.

I agree with Jonathan. He commented to me when we met at Munich a few years ago about how loading can affect the compliance of the cartridge and I have to admit I'd given it no thought until he brought it up. My main concern since the early 1990s about using loading as a solution is that its a bandaid for a phono section that has problems with RFI injected at its input. He is probably correct that the loading won't affect the cartridge very much until the load is near that of the impedance of the cartridge itself (at that point the output of the cartridge falls off). The winding in a cartridge

But it *does* affect the mechanical resonance of the cartridge in the tonearm and this in turn can affect how the cartridge tracks, as you want that resonance to be between 7 and 12Hz.  But for the most part you can certainly get the cartridge to track in many arms while driving a lower resistance load. Its simple physics that the cantilever will be stiffer. How that affects things will vary depending on the cartridge, arm and load resistance used.