Running LOMC with MM (47K) loading

Pindac,  I apologize if my earlier post seemed overbearing.  I do respect that each of us has a slightly different "taste" in SQ, for want of a better phrase.  What I assumed is that your phono stage was designed to provide what we commonly think of as MM levels of gain (anywhere from 39db to less than 50db), when using an ECC83, i.e., your phono stage was designed around the ECC83 input.  I assumed or guessed that into that ECC83 input tube socket, you are now using an ECC81.  This substitution would "work", but it would not be optimal for operation of the ECC81 (too little current, mainly), and as you know, there would be a significant penalty to overall gain of the phono stage.  With such a phono stage using the ECC81, it is not at all surprising that you found it worked best with a SUT.  In fact, if my conception of your phono is correct, I am surprised it works at all with an ECC81, when you use any typical LOMC cartridge, unless there is a second gain stage following the RIAA filter section.  (I guess I also misunderstood you to say originally that you far preferred the ECC81/SUT configuration to no SUT; I now understand you to say that you like the sound both ways but that the character is different, not surprisingly.)  Anyway, unless you are using a linestage with inordinate amounts of gain, into an amplifier with very high input sensitivity for full output, driving very efficent speakers, or some combination of these, it is no wonder you need to twist the VC fully over to achieve satisfactory sound pressure levels.  So, first question, was your phono stage designed FOR the ECC81 as input tube, once you inter-acted with the designer, or for the ECC83?  For slightly less gain in an MM stage, compared to the ECC83, many people use the 5751, which pops right in to an ECC83 design and is in between the ECC83 and ECC81 in terms of gain.

I am not a EE minded person.
My Trust was with the Engineer for the design / prototype builds.
As is, with all my other Amplification.

My contribution to the prototypes was to supply a quantity of Boutique Components from Brands the designer did not usually use, as well as supply ears to help with assessments as the design was developed.
This was done more under the guise of further learning, rather than believing a improvement could be achieved through exchanging components.
The designer had Two Identical schematics for 83Input / 83 Output Prototypes.
The Models only differed, as one model was a Single Input, and the other Model has Three Switchable Inputs. 
A Brand of Copper Cap's I chose are exchanged from the designers selected ones in my Phonostage,  these are allowing a Lighter Airier Presentation more aligned to my preference.
A lesson learned one can say.

As for the Phonostage as a development, I heard it with 83's Input Output, 81 Input/ 83 Output and a ECC82 Version .
The Power Supply has been produced in a couple of versions,
the second version is a very noticable improvement over the first edition.
I have the second version Power Supply.
I also know there was a surprise moment about the measurements, and in Layman Terms, the quietness of the Phonostage was extremely impressive.

Recently I have learned there is now another version Three of the Power Supply.
A friend who has been in the company of this Phonostgae on a few occassions has been impressed by this design, which has resulted in them now purchasing one with the Version Three Power Supply.
I am yet to learn whether it will be the same as mine or a 83/83.
This will be determined when the COVID restrictions are altered to allow non family members into anothers home, and the evaluations can start.

The restrictions with COVID over the past year has prevented the HiFi related 'get together' experiences I enjoy.
Hopefully I can get out and meet very soon and hear some of the
Lock Down developments that took place.     

You load the cartridge to what sounds good to you on your system and every system is different it is not a band aid but a load as you like it type of thing but i have found that you load a mc at about ten times its internal impedance for best results on most systems.

You load the cartridge to what sounds good to you on your system and every system is different it is not a band aid but a load as you like it

Its a band-aid in the sense that if the phono preamp doesn't have a problem with RFI injected at its input, you'll find that loading doesn't affect the sound nearly as much. So you'll be able to run with the stock 47K and it won't be too bright.

Well,@atmasphere, you have answered another question I had about whether loading is actually a band aid. Seems to be a natural progression. However I suppose it could also be an option for the customer who needs to tame their systems tendency towards brightness. At least that wa an early finding I had with some different components. Thanks