Thiel Owners


Guys-

I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!

Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
128x128jafant
Prof - there were many forces at work that limited sales of later Thiel speakers. The story is not easy to stitch together due to loyalties and other factors. My first direct contact in more than 15 years was in September 2012 when the CS2.7 was being finalized. I heard it compared with the CS3.7 in the Thiel listening room. That demonstration and work session was stunning with all elements of the playback chain optimized over a period of 25+ years. Both products were completely Lexington-made, reference prototype quality examples. 

But sales of the 3.7 and other products were very low. The factory was like a ghost town with perhaps 5 people total, mostly working on machines. No speakers were being made. By contrast, when I left in 1995 we had 50 people running a very vertically integrated R&D, production, marketing, sales, service and dealer education program with sales over $6M, 8 new products in the pipeline and sustained 30% annual growth. But things had become very sad by 2012. Many factors play, but not insignificant was that Kathy had taken sales to Crutchfield and then Amazon and alienated the traditional dealer base. Higher priced models were discontinued to simplify the business in hopes of survival for a new buyer. The new buyer emerged at the end of 2012 and the first attempt was to salvage and continue Jim's designs. Steve DeFuria, an early dealer and long-term industry insider was hired as sales manager and managed to re-recruit several strong traditional dealers, accounting for the fairly strong sales of the 2.7 and 1.7 relative to their predecessors. But the new design team changed horses, leaving behind Jim's approach; the reviewers and dealers didn't buy in, and the brand lost its re-emergent industry support. New Thiel poured $10M into their effort to re-brand Thiel as avant-garde lifestyle stuff for affluent young women. It failed.

An example of New Thiel's approach was to position the CS1.7 as a Coherent Source. It was actually a 4th order crossover like myriad other contemporary products. Old Thiel had a first order 1.7 nearly ready for market for early 2013, right after the 2.7 (which is first order) made entirely in Lexington with old-school Thiel components and methods. Part of the reason the 2.7 punches above its class is that the 2.7 has Lex boards and the 3.7 (after about #1100 in 2007) has FST boards. So there are lots of hidden elements in the mix at the end of Jim's life in 2008 and continuing until the demise of Old Thiel in 2013.





Guys - your input is valid and welcome. I don't claim to have answers, only observations.
Prof - I agree that the numbers seem odd. I go on what I sniff out, including Rob Gillum's input. The 2.7 uptick is due to re-emergent marketing under Steve DeFuria.
Beetle - I think you're on it. I know that early FST boards used ERSE coils, caps and resistors, which were made in China, but to very high standards including a best-of-form Japanese PP film, proper coil wire and winding, etc. Later FST including your SE boards have none of that. So quality was being compromized as time went on.
Robert - That 1500 count was from New Thiel reported to Rob. It may not be true or correct.
Jazzman - thank you for all the references. The review cycle goes like this: first production goes to dealers. Review samples come next which is often a few hundred pieces into the run. Thiel carefully tested and ensured those review samples were best of form. (Let's hold that ethical discussion till later.) It was rare for a product to be re-reviewed after a long time into its cycle and when that did happen, the reviewer would have been given home-brewed units with applicable updates. Of course it would be of great interest to directly compare a late FST product to a Lexington tweaked one - but I don't have that luxury. I have developed an opinion that the Lex versions with higher-grade parts and methods are better products.
tomthiel

Thank You for the detailed follow up. Very informative information on the CS 2.4, 2.4SE, 2.7 and CS 3.7 models. Keep researching and revealing here.

Happy Listening!
CS2.4 count update: Rob responded that there were about 2300 pairs of CS2.4s made, of which "only a few at the beginning were with Lex XO boards, before buying completed XOs from FST." That count makes more sense.

However it doesn't answer the quality decline riddle. I have (veiled) insider information that after Jim's death in 2009, and possibly earlier, Kathy cut costs in all the products. It is likely that she authorized the change from propylene to mylar caps and lesser coils. Just speculating on who and when, but we do know the what - some later versions were lower quality than earlier ones.

What I would love to know is whether Wes Philips 1991-1992 pair has Thiel or FST XOs and at what quality level. Reviews don't get much better than that one, and Wes was about as good as reviewers get. I'll see if I can tease an answer to that riddle out of Rob. More later. 
Beetle- regarding odd 2.4SE variants. Rob has done lots of customer upgrades from stock to SE xo status, either at his shop or providing parts and supervising. He uses CC SA caps, according to the original design when the SA was CC’s best. The CSA is a league up, but n my opinion.