2. amps-preamps
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Parasound A21+ vs MF M8 500S vs Cary 200.2 ES vs Hegel H20

Whilst in COVID lockdown I've been considering the next step for my system. 

I've been running a Herron VTSP-3 tube pre-amp into a Rogue ST100 tube amp for a while and whilst it has beautiful tone, timbre, density and the performers appear in front of me, I feel like it is a little smoothed over and lacking in excitement and dynamics. It needs a touch more air, liveliness and punch.

I tried a CJ CA200 (185wpc) integrated and a Kinki EX-M1 (215wpc) integrated and they both brought excitement and dynamics to the presentation but the CJ was faulty and was returned to the seller and the Kinki sounded just a touch dry to me (I upgraded the opamps which helped but it somehow sounded harmonically incomplete or overdamped and I couldn't ignore this when listening). Surprisingly, I didn't miss the tubes although both my pre-amp and amp sound pretty neutral and not typically tubey.

Although my speakers, Silverline Sonata III's, are rated an easy 93db sensitivity and 8ohm (+/- 10%) impedance, the extra power of the two integrated amps I tried really seemed to bring them to life. So, I'm thinking that if I keep the tube pre-amp but replace the Rogue ST100 (60wpc in Triode mode and 100wpc in Ultralinear mode) with a solid state power amp that's around 200wpc+ into 8 ohms, it might get me to where I want to be.

Obviously taking the candidate power amps home for trial would be ideal but this would be very difficult logistically, plus I will probably want to buy used in order to be able to afford the quality I'm after. Buying, trying and selling a number of amps is not something that would be readily tolerated by my wife who, although tolerant of my audio obsession has her limits.

So, if anyone has compared these amps, especially directly against each other, I would really appreciate hearing your thoughts as to their relative strengths and weaknesses. 

dkerr
desferous
29 posts
 
Just a quick thought because it sounds like you did like the Kinki.

My wife and I just got a Kinki EX-P7 & EX-M7 into our Focal Sopra 2s.

It sounds open, alive, and true.  Maybe revealing would be a good word too.  I am not sure what dry means.  (We tried a Pass XA-25 thinking it would be the choice and it sounded like someone had put pillows in front of the speakers. I wanted to love it but it drove me nuts.)

So, maybe consider Kinki separates.  I read in research and it seems odd, but something we might try in the future, that many people actually prefer a Denafrips preamp to a Kinki preamp with the EX-M7. 

Though our next step is to try a Decware amp! (in a year or so.)

Anyway, have fun with your search & keep auditioning at home!
avanti1960
1,480 posts
 
oh boy, where to begin...
first off i have had the stereo 100, the cary 200.2 and now have the parasound a21+.  
the stereo 100 was an awesome performer and very dynamic, the a21+ sounds hesitant by comparison - but - you have to use the balanced connections on the stereo 100, ultralinear mode and 8 ohm tap.  anthying different will shoot dynamics in the foot.  
i used the rogue audio RH 5 tube headphone amp linestage (stereophile class A, 2500 retail) which is a balanced design.  what a driving dynamic sound, the most powerful 100 watt amp i have ever heard, tube or solid state, used with connections and settings as mentioned.  sounds just popped and i wish i did not sell it.  
try the high gain on your herron if you havent, maybe that will help.  
the cary 200.2 sounded more dynamic, actually too dynamic whether balanced or slightly tamed down using rca connections.  it was super midrange forward though, almost shouty.  i had to part with it.  
the a21+ has excellent tone and transparency but not the best dynamics. 
to get satisfactory dynamics i bought the cary slp 05 preamp and that did the trick.  the cary is an amazing sounding preamp, also balanced connections.  
try bumping the herron to high gain, possibly more dynamic tubes?
run the st100 ultralinear, 8 ohm taps.  report back.  
based on my experience a different preamp will definitely do the job with the st100
good luck.  

dkerr OP
22 posts
 
@desferous - Thanks for the suggestion re the Kinki separates. My concern is that Kinki describe the EX-M7 as "essentially a beefed up EX-M1" and I don't know whether the issue I heard with the EX-M1 was due to the pre-amp stage or power amp stage (most people don't seem to hear it).

dkerr OP
22 posts
 
@avanti1960 - Wow, awesome feedback from somebody lucky enough to have owned/heard a number of the options I’m looking at. Thanks for taking the time to detail your experience, very helpful indeed.

I have run the ST100 in both triode and ultralinear mode and always on 8ohm taps but only SE input as the Herron doesn’t have balanced outputs. I’ve briefly tried the high gain setting on the Herron but it didn’t seem to make much difference once volume matched.

Based on your feedback re the excellent dynamics of the ST100 (especially with balanced connection) and the feedback from @unison77 that several lower wattage power amps happily provided sufficient dynamics from the Sonata III speakers, I’m now even more convinced that I need to try a different pre-amp and preferably a balanced one to determine whether it is the Herron or the SE inputs of the ST100 (or both) that are causing the perceived lack of dynamics.

You mentioned when using the RH-5 and ST100 together with balanced connections, "the sounds just popped" and that is probably a good description of what I am missing. To be honest I hadn’t really thought that pre-amps would make that much of a difference to dynamics (versus power amps), especially when I’m using a pre-amp of the class of the VTSP-3. But now I need to investigate this.

You also mentioned that the A21+ "sounds hesitant" compared to the ST100. I was wondering what speakers (sensitivity/impedance) this was on and whether overall you prefer the ST100 or the A21+?

jjss49's avatar
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jjss49
6,612 posts
 
the hegel h20 is outstanding (and superior to the parasound) but even if you like extra power it may be overkill for your silverlines

if you want tube goodness but more 'excitement' i cannot recommend the linear tube audio ref zotl40 high enough... really the best of ss and tubes combined in many respects
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