2. amps-preamps
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Parasound A21+ vs MF M8 500S vs Cary 200.2 ES vs Hegel H20

Whilst in COVID lockdown I've been considering the next step for my system. 

I've been running a Herron VTSP-3 tube pre-amp into a Rogue ST100 tube amp for a while and whilst it has beautiful tone, timbre, density and the performers appear in front of me, I feel like it is a little smoothed over and lacking in excitement and dynamics. It needs a touch more air, liveliness and punch.

I tried a CJ CA200 (185wpc) integrated and a Kinki EX-M1 (215wpc) integrated and they both brought excitement and dynamics to the presentation but the CJ was faulty and was returned to the seller and the Kinki sounded just a touch dry to me (I upgraded the opamps which helped but it somehow sounded harmonically incomplete or overdamped and I couldn't ignore this when listening). Surprisingly, I didn't miss the tubes although both my pre-amp and amp sound pretty neutral and not typically tubey.

Although my speakers, Silverline Sonata III's, are rated an easy 93db sensitivity and 8ohm (+/- 10%) impedance, the extra power of the two integrated amps I tried really seemed to bring them to life. So, I'm thinking that if I keep the tube pre-amp but replace the Rogue ST100 (60wpc in Triode mode and 100wpc in Ultralinear mode) with a solid state power amp that's around 200wpc+ into 8 ohms, it might get me to where I want to be.

Obviously taking the candidate power amps home for trial would be ideal but this would be very difficult logistically, plus I will probably want to buy used in order to be able to afford the quality I'm after. Buying, trying and selling a number of amps is not something that would be readily tolerated by my wife who, although tolerant of my audio obsession has her limits.

So, if anyone has compared these amps, especially directly against each other, I would really appreciate hearing your thoughts as to their relative strengths and weaknesses. 

dkerr
dkerr OP
22 posts
 
@desferous - Thanks for the suggestion re the Kinki separates. My concern is that Kinki describe the EX-M7 as "essentially a beefed up EX-M1" and I don't know whether the issue I heard with the EX-M1 was due to the pre-amp stage or power amp stage (most people don't seem to hear it).

dkerr OP
22 posts
 
@avanti1960 - Wow, awesome feedback from somebody lucky enough to have owned/heard a number of the options I’m looking at. Thanks for taking the time to detail your experience, very helpful indeed.

I have run the ST100 in both triode and ultralinear mode and always on 8ohm taps but only SE input as the Herron doesn’t have balanced outputs. I’ve briefly tried the high gain setting on the Herron but it didn’t seem to make much difference once volume matched.

Based on your feedback re the excellent dynamics of the ST100 (especially with balanced connection) and the feedback from @unison77 that several lower wattage power amps happily provided sufficient dynamics from the Sonata III speakers, I’m now even more convinced that I need to try a different pre-amp and preferably a balanced one to determine whether it is the Herron or the SE inputs of the ST100 (or both) that are causing the perceived lack of dynamics.

You mentioned when using the RH-5 and ST100 together with balanced connections, "the sounds just popped" and that is probably a good description of what I am missing. To be honest I hadn’t really thought that pre-amps would make that much of a difference to dynamics (versus power amps), especially when I’m using a pre-amp of the class of the VTSP-3. But now I need to investigate this.

You also mentioned that the A21+ "sounds hesitant" compared to the ST100. I was wondering what speakers (sensitivity/impedance) this was on and whether overall you prefer the ST100 or the A21+?

jjss49's avatar
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jjss49
6,612 posts
 
the hegel h20 is outstanding (and superior to the parasound) but even if you like extra power it may be overkill for your silverlines

if you want tube goodness but more 'excitement' i cannot recommend the linear tube audio ref zotl40 high enough... really the best of ss and tubes combined in many respects
dkerr OP
22 posts
 
the hegel h20 is outstanding (and superior to the parasound) ...
@jjss49 In what ways did you feel that the H20 sounded better than the A21+? 


...  but even if you like extra power it may be overkill for your silverlines
"Overkill" for the Silverlines in terms of power or cost? 

avanti1960
1,476 posts
 
@dkerr
same speakers used for both amps, st 100 and a21+ , 86db harbeth shl5+.  
overall i liked the sound of the stereo100 better, more dynamic, more organic, ability to tube swap, i used amperex 12ax7 and rca 12au7.  
i bought the a21+ thinking it would improve bass response.  wrong.  
i never replace a new component with one i sold off, throwing good money after bad.  
the a21+ is an excellent solid state amp and it does sound very good and can play quite loud without fuss.  
ps i also demoed the hegel h20 and did not care for the sound of the system, thin, overly transparent amost surgical with ker r11 towers. 
the right preamp will meet your goals.  important to note is that the rogue RH 5 sounds much more dynamic than the RP 5 (no balanced connections either).  it even sounds better than the twice as expensinve RP 7 which i owned.  I was very disappointed in the lack of dynamics in the RP 7.  
another one to try is the Cary SLP 98.  even with rca connections it is very dynamic.  check cary direct for good prices.  
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