I can’t help but wonder how much further out of the range of human hearing a pair of supertweeters would have to be before they stopped improving on the sound of some of our audiophiles’ systems?
Is there no limit?
Is there no limit?
Townshend Maximum Supertweeters
Yes, Maximum. I don’t come up with the names, I just review the stuff, okay? ;) And I got em because everyone keeps telling me I should, and once again they are right. Whew! That was easy!
Kidding! We will now laboriously delve into why you cannot live without these tweeters, that you can’t even hear.
For sure I can’t. My hearing rolls off somewhere north of 15k. If that. These things extend to 90k. Why? What difference can it possibly make?
Who knows? And since when has that stopped me?
So out they come and what have we here? Two heavy black bricks, with a screen on the front and a couple binding posts on the back. In between the posts is a little knob you use to turn them off and set the levels. On the bottom are rudimentary rubber dimple feet. Guess I was expecting Pods or something, this being Townshend. No such luck.
They go on top of the Moabs. Well there is already a BDR Shelf on top, and a HFT dead center right where this thing is supposed to go. Moving HFT even an inch changes the sound so executive decision, the Maximum Supertweeters go just outboard of the HFT. They are first just placed there not even connected, just in case this somehow messes with the sound. It doesn’t.
Okay so now you need to know my system is all messed up. No, not the usual mess I mean really seriously messed up. No turntable. Chris Brady has the bearing for some resurfacing and stuff. So we are slumming with the heavily modded Oppo. Not to fear, Ted Denney sent me some of his latest Atmosphere X (review to come) which with the right tuning bullet the Oppo now sounds....digital. Oh well. KBO.
The usual: Demag. Warmup. Listen a while. Hook em up. What level? Who knows? Moabs are 98dB. How ya gonna know anyway? How can it even matter? How do you even set the level of something you can’t hear? Level 3, good as any. Plug em in. No change. Not the slightest peep out of these things. Total dud. Knew it. Sit back down.
What the...? No way. There is not the slightest hint of top end coming from these things. They may as well not be there at all. Except the whole presentation is somehow different. Top to bottom. No way!
I get up and turn the black magic off. Sit back down. Crap. Flat, grainy, digital. Turn em back on. Deep, liquid, analog.
No, not analog like my turntable. They are just supertweeters after all not magic. But way more analog than it was. More dimensional, more solid, more liquid detailed. More black between the notes, and in the black it is now easier to hear the natural acoustic decay. I do NOT want to go back to listening to CD without this! I cannot wait to hear it with my table.
And I haven’t even had time to get them dialed in yet!
Kidding! We will now laboriously delve into why you cannot live without these tweeters, that you can’t even hear.
For sure I can’t. My hearing rolls off somewhere north of 15k. If that. These things extend to 90k. Why? What difference can it possibly make?
Who knows? And since when has that stopped me?
So out they come and what have we here? Two heavy black bricks, with a screen on the front and a couple binding posts on the back. In between the posts is a little knob you use to turn them off and set the levels. On the bottom are rudimentary rubber dimple feet. Guess I was expecting Pods or something, this being Townshend. No such luck.
They go on top of the Moabs. Well there is already a BDR Shelf on top, and a HFT dead center right where this thing is supposed to go. Moving HFT even an inch changes the sound so executive decision, the Maximum Supertweeters go just outboard of the HFT. They are first just placed there not even connected, just in case this somehow messes with the sound. It doesn’t.
Okay so now you need to know my system is all messed up. No, not the usual mess I mean really seriously messed up. No turntable. Chris Brady has the bearing for some resurfacing and stuff. So we are slumming with the heavily modded Oppo. Not to fear, Ted Denney sent me some of his latest Atmosphere X (review to come) which with the right tuning bullet the Oppo now sounds....digital. Oh well. KBO.
The usual: Demag. Warmup. Listen a while. Hook em up. What level? Who knows? Moabs are 98dB. How ya gonna know anyway? How can it even matter? How do you even set the level of something you can’t hear? Level 3, good as any. Plug em in. No change. Not the slightest peep out of these things. Total dud. Knew it. Sit back down.
What the...? No way. There is not the slightest hint of top end coming from these things. They may as well not be there at all. Except the whole presentation is somehow different. Top to bottom. No way!
I get up and turn the black magic off. Sit back down. Crap. Flat, grainy, digital. Turn em back on. Deep, liquid, analog.
No, not analog like my turntable. They are just supertweeters after all not magic. But way more analog than it was. More dimensional, more solid, more liquid detailed. More black between the notes, and in the black it is now easier to hear the natural acoustic decay. I do NOT want to go back to listening to CD without this! I cannot wait to hear it with my table.
And I haven’t even had time to get them dialed in yet!
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- 133 posts total
Whatever limit there is, it has to be well above 20k. Probably above 40k and maybe twice that. This article explains why. http://www.townshendaudio.com/PDF/The-world-beyond-20kHz.pdf Part of the story is even though we don't hear such high frequencies as such, we do have specialized cells within the ear canal that do detect and respond to them. Instead of hearing it as a distinct tone it seems this is used to tell us information about the source and character of the sound. It makes sense because if a dry twig snaps or a leaf crumbles and you can tell from the sound it was a tiger and not a mouse, well the one you can eat but the other can eat you and so if you are not a pretty good audiophile hey you, out of the gene pool! Ideally you want to know this even without having to think about it. I have seen studies showing the response to seeing a snake is so fast it cannot possibly have time to travel up the neurons all the way to the Neo-cortex and back, the reflex had to have been triggered further down like in the brain stem. Down to where you literally do not even have time to think. So like that. |
Here's an interesting test if you own these supertweeters, or even another brand. I've seen several comments on this thread questioning the audibility of the supertweeters because of our limited ability to sense or hear very high frequency information. Well, one contributor here said that Max Townshend advised that he reverse the polarity be swapping the leads. I emailed Max and asked why. He said that it gives a feeling of airy spaciousness, which is pretty much the response I expected after many times hooking up interconnects incorrectly. I tried it today with music I know well; first correct phase, and then inverted. Inverted phase was clearly unfocused whereas correct phase sounded focused with clearly defined images. For me, this clearly proves the audibility of the contribution made by the supertweeters. I already knew what they were doing, but I think that this could be a good test for doubters. |
jasonbourne52631 posts06-14-2021 7:20amThe capacity of Humans for self-deception is apparently unlimited - Mr. Spock the Vulcan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ haha Richard Gray dug out from his stash room a pair of *super tweeter ribbons* Tag on rear is Pyramid Loudspeaker Corp, So i gave thema shot , to see if they out shoots his Magnovox 1963 tweeter horn which is IMHO probably the best tweeter ever made. So hooked them up, ha!, sounded so weak and thin, maybe 82db, These things from what I am told sold for like $4k a pair and some were actually sold. I wouldn;'t give a dime for em. I just got my AMT chinese Neo's in, $70 a pair, says 98db. HA! again lucky if these things are 90db. Thats 8 db off from what I was hoping. Again, the Magnovox horn tweeter is the benchmark, the gold standard, the top dawg to out shoot. . Honestly i really do not believe there is a tweeter that will surapss the Magnovox horn, made in 1963 right here in the USA. China can NOT make quality speakers, It is impossible, They do not have the engineering. But they sure make the world;'s finest opamps for digital. |
- 133 posts total