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Upper Level Vintage DD Strenghts and Weaknesses

All of these tables have been discussed in some form or another here over the years. I have read quite a few threads on them, but its a bit difficult to nail this point down.

Basically I am looking for a non-suspended table to install a Dynavector DV505 arm on, and these tables can fit the bill.

The most widely available is a Denon DP 75 or DP 80 in a Denon plinth, and they are perhaps the most affordable also. Are there any of their plinths that are desirable, or are they just a veneered stack of MDF or plywood?

While more expensive I can find a Sony TTS8000 in a Resinamic plinth although shipping from HK is expensive. There is one thread I came across here where a member who restores tables says two of the three TTS8000 he has done had play in the spindle assembly which looked to be wear in the brass bushings of the motor. That does make me pause in concern.

The JVC TT101 is not only difficult to find, its apparently a bit of a bear to get serviced, so its not high on the list.

The Technics SP 10 MK II I have owned, and its a nice table but to be honest I had a Denon DP75 that I felt actually sounded better. Also the models that are out there are either abused or have a premium price tag attached to them. Also I don’t need instant torque, and I think the bi-servo designs might offer better speed control.

As I write this the Denon and Sony seem to be at the top of the list, unless there is another I should be looking at.
neonknight
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
The one I have looks like the OM body cartridge, but its silver and has a non user replicable stylus.

So it’s like this, but without replaceable stylus?
Here is the specs for "U"

Interesting that these type of cartridges were popular back then, so many manufacturers made "OM-alike" design, but most of them were MM.

SONY made an MC-1 and MC-3 with, but my personal favorite are MM XL-50 with Boron Pipe (and very rare XL-70 with Sapphire cantilever). I was lucky to find a few NOS samples of XL-50, now I hope to replace my XL-70 with NOS unit. 

Accutex (Azden) cartridges have the same "OM-alike" design.

Stanton and Pickering also made something similar.


The Ortofon MC200 is even worse with an output voltage of .09 mV. But it uses some pretty snazzy technology for a cartridge this age. Boron cantilever, fine line nude (line contact) stylus, samarium cobalt ring magnet, and Ortofons WRD damping system which is still found on their higher level cartridges today.

I never tried Concorde or OM MC200, but I have Ortofon MC2000 with terribly low output too, and all the advanced technology of that age. MC2000 is completely different from MC200.


the Fidelity Research MC202 with an output voltage of .13 mV. These are tough output voltages to work with, but I wonder if the low number of coil windings is what contributes to the wonderful sound of those cartridges. At that time you likely had to use step up transformers. In my case I have an Esoteric E-03 phono stage that can handle those low voltages.

Besides the FR best 7f and 7fz, I enjoyed PMC-3 and now discovered the MCX-3 designed by Ozawa (now Shelter) which I posted in FR dedicated thread recently.





neonknight OP
392 posts
 
Vintage cartridges really isn't my thing, nor is owning a couple dozen of them. I only have one system and a limit of three turntables. So I need 4 or 5 cartridges at the most. The MC200 is meant to be a casual listening cartridge as I have a lot of music on vinyl that is not duplicated in my digital collection. Yes I can stream but I find my vinyl sounds better. I paid $105 shipped for the MC200 and I will use up the hours in the diamond and then send it off to a retipper who claims he can replace a diamond on stock cantilever and get factory quality alignment. We will see, this is a good test mule for that. 

The sound is fundamentally different than current Ortofon cartridges. I believe when CD came out manufacturers had a different target for voicing with their new designs. This cartridge comes from the pre CD era so it does present music differently, and its a nice change of pace to have. Perhaps I will acquire another vintage cartridge at some time, I have always wanted to own one of the Kiseki or perhaps a Shinon. 

Actually who knows what the future holds. My system is pretty well done as I have three good tables and I only run one audio system and the gear I got is long term keepers. So maybe i will end up exploring vintage MC cartridges. 
lewm
13,038 posts
 
I think you would find, or at least in my opinion, MC cartridges have advanced quite a bit more in terms of sound quality than have moving magnet or moving iron iron cartridges, since the good old days of the 1970s. I choose that era because the first MC cartridges to reach the US market did so in the early 1970s, to the best of my recollection. Specifically we received the Supex line of cartridges from Japan at about that time. In my opinion, the Supex cartridges were no match for any of the better moving magnet and moving iron cartridges of those days. That could be because there was a dearth of devices that had sufficient gain to handle the low output of the cartridges. Mark Levinson was one of the first to produce such a black box which could be used ahead of a moving magnet phono stage to add gain. I suppose there were also SUT‘s back then, but I have no memory of them. However, gurus like Harry Pearson jumped on the bandwagon right away, and his praise of the Supex was way over the top compared to what my own ears told me back then. I was not even tempted to own one. My point is that I think you would have more fun investigating vintage moving magnet and moving iron cartridges and stick with later production moving coil types, say from the 1990s onwards to the present.
neonknight OP
392 posts
 
@lewm
I currently use a Transfiguration Audio Proteus and ZYX 4D. Also have an Ikeda Kawami which counts as a classic MC but sounds nothing like one. The Proteus and 4D meet my needs for modern MC and I am content with them. Anything I do now is just for fun, to explore, but for my best sound reproduction I got what I can afford, I dont't have the resources to climb higher. 
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
My point is that I think you would have more fun investigating vintage moving magnet and moving iron cartridges and stick with later production moving coil types, say from the 1990s onwards to the present.

Definitely, my recent discovery is Azden Piezo Ym-320X (IM) 
Azden and Accutex is the same thing. 

More to discover