speakers for classical music

jsadurni210 posts06-11-2008 3:01pmWe are all cooking in this audio kitchen, I have tried SS chip amps with horns and it was very good actually, the one I tried (have) is DIY but I guess a more refined amp could do very well, a very close friend has the Avantgarde Duos also and just changed from a class A PP Jadis amp to a Meishu SE Audionote, on his system this change was very good I was with him during the AB comparison stage, both amps there...on my system PP class A tube amp (Leak TL12.1) sounded much much better that AN P4 go figure...


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Thats pretty good, we are all chefs , at least the ones here who are upgrading, modifying, tweaking, their systems, Experimentation is what this hobby is all about.
I am close to adding my 1st ever high tech wide band. 
My tech friend who builds amp, will loan me his  DIY monoblocks  Dyanco Mark4 modded with EL34's/12AU7 and one other pre tube , This will face a  shootout with my jadis Defy7, upgraded caps to Mundorf's SESGO and new F&T's + new Takman Rey resistors. 
Along with these 2 amps he will loan me his 250 SET amp. 
I am curious how each tube performs on the high quality FR driver. 
With all sorts of music in this shootout, from high quality jazz recordings, to aweful live recordings, like Mahvishnu Orch Live in Central park. 
The main music will be full symphony orchestra which is the real test of any speakers perfornance. 
caveat: Speakers must have a   sensitivty of 91db/higher.
This cut off eliminates alot of famous and very popular xover type designs. 
And I also note Voxativ has quite a  few of its single drivers at 91db. Based on that number,  this marks the line in the sand whether a  speaker makes the grade to voice my fav genre , classical. . 
90db is too low sens, its going to miss too many nuances hidden withina  full symphony orchestra. 

chashmal605 posts06-09-2008 9:04amI think you should avoid metal tweeters like B&W style speakers use.

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Correct, Dome tweeters are excellent for jazz other genres, 
Dome tweets will not voice full symphony orchestra. 
its too small of a  coil + sensitivity is too low.
2 liabilities/flaws. . 
The only speaker I know, other than massive horns, to voice CM full sym orch, are wide band/higher sensitivty  speakers. 

ggavetti143 posts06-08-2008 10:21pmDCstep, actually some people believe the right sub can solve the problem, but I never tried it (actually, I tried a Velodyne but had no luck)

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Subs should not ever be employed for full symphony orchestra. 
Best musical woofer is the Seas W22 graphene with Mundorf Supreme silver/gold caps. far superior to any sub. Though about the same price as a  high quality sub , The caps are expensive. 

dcstep1,518 posts06-09-2008 11:31am06-09-08: Chadeffect said:

"Box speakers are always going to give you problems though, and IMHO a bad place to start if listening to classical music only."

Lot's of us disagree with your opinion here.

Later you mention B&W 801 and 802s somewhat favorably. Is that not a "box speaker"? Anyway, many of us think that floor-standing, three-way speakers are the logical place to start for high quality, highly dynamic, full range sound for classical music reproduction.

People that can't afford the three-ways should consider two-way, stand-mounted mini-monitors, IMHO, and accept the compromise in low frequency response.

Dave

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Sure 
How can Chad make the claim ~~box style speakers /problems~~ 
Then go on to suggest the ever popular, if not famous ~~B&W~~ which I associate with  none other than Bose, like Bose' bigger brother. 

Yet Chad is correct, there is not 1 box/xover speaker which holds any interest for voicing full symphony orchestra. 
I made attempts, but none worked out.
Then after spending alot of cash upgrading my Thors, and countless hours of research..
I began ~~Thinking Outside The Box~, pun intended.
Ordered some chinese **full range** for test purposes only, 
Yes , now here were the missing pieces  to the puzzle.
Wide band/Point Source/Higher sens/Full range, tag it how you wish. 
This is the ~~Holy Grail~~ I've been desparetely seeking these past years.
My tech friend made a  comment, to the effect, 
**Don't be surprised if they fall short on crushing passages when full sym opens up**
Can't be any worse that how the Seas Millennium handles symphony orchestra. 
Box speakers with xovers have a  fatguing midrange,although the Millennium was the most accurate and least fatiguing of any  tweeter I've heard, , Still at 87 db, its just not offering up the goods whena  symphony is in full bloom. 
Less than 1 inch voice coil, with 100++ instrumentation all trying to get a  piece of that miniscule voice coil. 
For jazz the Millennium is a  wonderous marvel. 
2 other seas high quality tweets  worth considering for jazz, are their newest Cresendo(87db) and their 20 yr old design the Exotic Alnico(94db)
I'd go Exotic for the higher sens.
But its not made for full orchestra. jazz only. . 

shadorne7,467 posts06-18-2008 2:03pmAnother example, on the subject of compression, in this case "ringing" may rob the midrange of dynamic range Stereophile Review. Ringing also reduces the contrast or sharpness in transients which is why Quad 57's are cherished (with its nice waterfall) for being "fast" and beautifully detailed even if they are limited dynamically.


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You see I think this is where tweeters fall apart, whena   full orchestra is in full bloom, Schnittke, and such. 
A dome tweeter is being taxed to the max, and starts ringing and  begins shutting down. 
This is why the new designs  in wide band have addressed these issues and are able to voice these massive loads of fq's with a  more relaxed and ease in performance. 
The Quads need power and lack bass, highs rolled off. I believe the newer wide bands have addressed these earlier (Fostex/Lowther) faulty designs,  now with superior bass and highs.