Dedicated lines — how many? Other advice?

Bear in mind a lot of things people say that seem to make sense don’t really pan out when tested. The idea of separating things on different circuits for example. I have done all kinds of stuff that proves this does not work the way everyone thinks. There is even a very simple method anyone can use to demonstrate and prove this for themselves.

Simply listen to some music, flip off all the non-system circuit breakers, and listen again. The improvement you just heard was nothing to do with the system circuit. You didn’t touch that. It is all the other "separate" "isolated" circuits that made the difference. If things on other circuits are isolated or separated then disconnecting them would make no difference. But it does. Therefore they cannot be isolated.

Next do the same thing only this time flip off only circuits with nothing running on them. Another improvement, this time not as big but it is there. I have done this several times for different people, they always hear it. I have done this before and after adding a power conditioner, step down transformer, system dedicated earth ground, etc. All things that are supposed to eliminate and prevent things like this from ever happening. They do not. They do not make even the slightest difference. The breaker flipping trick makes a big improvement, no matter what.    

So what is going on? I could tell you but it is better if you actually do this and think about it, because that is the key, to think and not just repeat stuff everyone else is saying.

Been consulting some very experienced audiophiles with long scientific backgrounds. They've been testing audio for a long time and have fantastic systems.

1. The idea of designing a power supply scheme around defeating ground loops is one way to go. But many people never experience ground loops. If I run more than one line — which is quite cheap when everything is bare wall and a new panel is coming — is smarter than accepting, from the get go, that ground loops are a likely result.

2. If I ever want to have the ability to run high power class A amps? If so, having dedicated 20 amp circuits is the way to go.

3. If I live in an area where electrical storms are common? (I do). If so, then one better be thinking about surge protection and/or unplugging everything when not in use. Some do both.

4. Recommendation: at least two dedicated 20 amp lines; one is for power amps, the other is for everything else. More dedicated lines makes sense, if the cost is reasonable at time of build.

Oh, and Miller -- I agree about listening. I'll put in the additional lines and listen -- for a ground loop, for sound, etc. And if it sounds better on a single line, or if I hear a ground loop hum, I'll let everyone know. Promise.

P.S. You mention Fremer. He's a smart guy. So is Robert Harley; here's Harley on dedicated lines:

"The room’s five dedicated 20-amp AC outlets for the audio system are wired with identical lengths of 10AWG on the same phase…. I specified five dedicated lines for equipment-placement flexibility. In practice, I need only three: one for each power amplifier and a third for the front-end components."
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/building-a-listening-room/3

Here's Atkinson:

Stereophile editor John Atkinson writes “For less than the cost of a budget power amplifier-a mere $373.45—the electrician ran two new 20A lines to the listening room, one with the hot on one side of neutral, the other on the other. Each had its own circuit breaker and each fed two hospital-grade wall sockets. (These orange receptacles grasp the prongs of AC plugs with a clasp akin to the Vulcan death grip.) All source components and the system preamplifier were plugged into an Inouye AC conditioner, in turn plugged into one of the new lines; power amplifiers were plugged into the other new line.

The sonic effect was nothing short of stunning.
https://www.psaudio.com/ps-how/how-to-install-a-dedicated-ac-line/

Here's Paul McGowan on Ground Loops and dedicated lines:
https://youtu.be/uWqLbiqKMPY?t=260

The circuit breaker test I described can be done by anyone, any time. I have described this test at least a half a dozen times now. Once you have your system warmed up and running it takes at most a few minutes. As far as I know no one has ever bothered to try it. 

This is the one area I have yet to hear anyone talk about. It is great what Harley and Atkinson did. For some reason people get all caught up in BSD. I say good for them. But Atkinson compared normal wire to dedicated lines with a conditioner. Harley likewise wired his room, one and done.  

I thought all good audiophiles know you must make only one change at a time to be able to comment on what did what? That is still a thing, right?  

So there really is no conflict at all between what I am saying and what these guys did. All that is missing, neither one of them can say what contributed to what.  

Because I did all my stuff 30 years ago back before the internet I had no choice but to try and see. So my room was wired first the normal way, because the electrician and everyone else had me convinced it couldn't possibly be worth a dedicated line. Then I changed one thing, to a dedicated line. That right there was huge. I have actually done just this one thing, and heard the difference. Then I changed that dedicated line to larger gauge. So I know what that does. Then changed it from 120V to 240V with a step down. Then I added a dedicated earth ground. So I know what that did. Then ripped all the wire out and had it cryo'd. Same wire, nothing else changed. So I know what that does. That was all years ago. Now the last few years I've done a whole slew more things, to the point virtually every inch of wire from where the service comes in the breaker panel to where it solders onto the drivers is treated one way or another.  

The thing about ground loops and hum, it is not a case of if you do it wrong you will get hum. Lots of people get away with doing it wrong, for a couple of reasons. One, it takes a pretty decent voltage differential to result in audible ground loop hum. How much? Depends! And two, a lot of AC "noise" is inaudible as noise. You do not hear it as noise, per se.   

That is the whole point of the test. To educate yourself and your ears to actually maybe understand what everyone else is merely talking about. The fact of the matter is until you have actually done this stuff you just don't know. Atkinson and Harley know they have it better now. They just don't know for sure why, because of the way they did it. 

Having done this stuff has taught me every inch of wire is an antenna funneling noise into the system. I would not want more wires running to my system simply because that is more antenna, more noise. Also I know the value of treating the wires. The more wires the more wire treatment. Double the treatment does not yield double the improvement. It just costs double. 

You see the difference? You see why it is possible to learn so much from seemingly simple tests like flipping breakers? It is nice to cut and paste stuff others have done. Do you see the difference between cut and past and knowing from experience?

That is the whole point of the test. To educate yourself and your ears to actually maybe understand what everyone else is merely talking about. The fact of the matter is until you have actually done this stuff you just don’t know....It is nice to cut and paste stuff others have done. Do you see the difference between cut and past and knowing from experience?

To "maybe understand." Thanks so much.

So "maybe" you can understand that you’re not the only one who listens or tries things. I do know the difference. So do others. And I am not disputing your (insultingly simple) advice to try things and listen.

But bear in mind that you gave an instant and fairly definitive answer -- one dedicated line, no surge suppressor. That instant answer to my question shows what’s worked for you. But by researching what others have found -- relayed, I admit, via the vaunted "cut and paste" method -- what do we discover? Oh, that there are others beside you who have as much experience and acumen as you do (can you, maybe, understand that is possible?). Lo and behold! They, too, have also listened and tested -- and look! they found that *more* than one dedicated line was better. And they found that ground loops are not the best rationale for going with only one dedicated line to the exclusion of more. At least, you know, until there’s a chance to listen.

You see the difference? You see why it is possible to learn so much from seemingly simple research like looking what other testimony report? It is nice to dismiss stuff others have done. Do you see the difference between entertaining there are other points of view besides yours and simply promoting your experience as if it was universal truth? I’m hoping that maybe you can understand the difference, but I won’t be betting much on it.

Once again, I invite you to throw up your hands and say "Oh well" and stop (again) polluting my OP's with your snide remarks. You don't like me, you don't respect me, and I would rather forego your advice (and yet another invitation to genuflect at your system) than be exposed to your toxic personality. Begone.