larryi2,541 posts07-07-2021 8:03amMozartfan,
Can you list, without acronyms, the specific speaker systems you are referring to as being state of the art, particularly ones that have no crossovers at all? Aside from a small handful of cone driver speakers with just a single driver (Charney and Voxativ), I have not heard any that, given my taste and priorities, I would consider an acceptable set of compromises. The other acceptable single driver systems were panel speakers (electrostatics), like the big Soundlab speakers (the biggest compromise with these speakers being the need to play them at somewhat high volume levels).
I like systems with wide range drivers handling a big part of the upper bass through most of the treble range, probably because they minimize the negative effects of a crossover, but, a crossover is almost always a necessary item in a decent full range system. Some of the systems I like employing such drivers include very old drivers (like the Jensen M10 fieldcoil driver) as well as modern drivers, including exotic drivers like the Feastrix field coil drivers, and Voxativ drivers. There are a number of manufacturers using wide range drivers in multi-way systems that sound good to me, such as systems from Soundkaos and Trenner and Friedl.
I happen to like very much systems employing compression/horn midrange drivers, particularly vintage drivers, like those by Western Electric and the International Projector Company. Modern fieldcoil drivers from the likes of G.I.P. Laboratories (Japan) sound terrific too.
If you heard just one example of a crossover "upgrade" that disappointed you, I don't think that there is enough data to generalize about crossovers in general. If a speaker is not very good, or if a speaker IS very good (including the crossover supplied by the manufacturer), attempts at an upgrade may not work out. If the "upgrade" consisted of simply putting in a more expensive part with the same electrical value, it will often be the case that the result is hardly a difference or even a negative result. A local builder whose speakers I really like, totally HATES the sound of the expensive Mundorf caps; for his designs and particular taste, these are bad caps. A good design is one that is voiced properly and that does not necessarily mean using more expensive parts.
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Larryi
This is a fair and well present post.
I appreciate your contributions to this discussion, of
**Where do we go from here??*
Long story short.
I really can not say I've heard a better xover design that beats Seas.
We all have to agree Seas makes the best sounding drivers, with Scanspeak as a twin brother in this regard.
The main issue here is the low db spec. I simply can not will not accept that sensitivity for my music.
can't won't. Those days are over.
Been there done that.
Theils, Wilson's etc, all will have the same issues of low sensitivity = Read *INefficient = IJNeffective*. Others can argue, their case these xover designs continue to hold value.
Pre new high tech wide band (AER/Voxativ) , yeah, ok, the xover designs with Scan and Seas, had value.
But now with newer , superior technology in these single drivers, the *older* xover designs have been rendered of less value.
All due to the Sensitivity factor.
Which is EVERYTHING ina speakers performance.
The xover fanatics will not embrace the new wide band.
They say its not their cup of tea, Yet w/o having even heard a quality wide band = Pure biased prejudice.
I am writing for all the nwbies who will come into this hobby over the next few decades.
All my hundreds of posts, ranting and raving over wide band speakers,,may at least give newbies some ideas that xovers are NOT the ONLY speaker to hear true high fidelity.
Your Jensen and Western Electric i am sure sound better than most xover types from the 70's and 80's.
Those great high sens designs got pushed under the bus, all due to commercialISM,
This is my point.
I see xover designs as inefficient thus not really qualified to voice true fidelity.
Here, 1929 THis was true fidelity. We are about to go full circle, What began as high efficient speakers, now will go full circle back to wide band high sensivity speakers,
In 20 years from now, xover types, Theils, etc, all these will be cast away at garage sales, cheaply priced on Ebay, stuck in the dusty attic.
The next generation audiophile is moving away from xover styles and going wide band cone speakers.
Its just a matter of time.
This is my i blast my mantra all over the Inet
To get the word out, Get the ball rolling.
Take the spot light off xover designs and put the light where it truly deservedly belongs,
Wide Band /High sensitivity speakers.
I am The Iconclyst.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpsPGnvIfFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrqv5nOjLuw
WE have to get back to the very beginnings, where it all started.
We have forgotten what true high fidelity is all about,
Seas Millennium,,,give me a break, Wet blankets = un-musical.