Sota or Technics

I swear I can’t hear any noise from my turntables, they are dead quite and in this discussion I don’t want to talk about bad turntables, I know they are exist somewhere, but not in my world (I don’t use them). And I agree that a good turntable can be a belt drive, direct or idler, for all those good examples a cartridge is responsible for sound (and everything else between the cart and speakers, and room acoustics too).

I think we normally swap cartridges (matched to specific tonearms), phono stages or suts, tube users have fun with tube rolling, some people are crazy about cables.

I think we rarely swap turntables or speakers just for fun. I mean we may have a few systems, but it’s not like 5 different pair of speakers (I have 3 pairs) or 5 different turntables (I have 6), but I use just 2 turntables and a pair of speakers most of the time. When I want different flavor I can choose one of 4 different tonearms with matched cartridges connected to different phono stages, sound signature is different, but turntable is the same (Luxman PD-444 is my reference DD in the Lab, dead quiet low torque DD in its heavymetal plinth).

sokogear, I'd like to make a slight correction to your statement. Everything that is measurable is not audible but everything that is audible is measurable. Sound quality is subjective to some degree and subjectivity is not measurable. 
As an example, I can set up a measurement microphone, play some music and display a sonic spectrum on the computer. I can change the frequency response an see the change occurring on the computer in real time. I can go the other way and play a slow sine sweep and look at the frequency response curve. If I see something I do not like I can make an adjustment and run another sweep to see if I fixed the problem. Since I can run individual sweeps for each channel I can adjust them independently until the two channels are within 1 dB of each other from 100 Hz to 10 kHz.  

@mijostyn - you can make your changes, but they may not be audible to some people. We all have different hearing and listening capabilities and skills, not to mention preferences and biases. 
How do you measure audible changes that dont change frequency response?

Sokogear, there are several parameters you can look at besides frequency response, the various types of distortion, group delays, phase angles, etc. As I alluded to in my last post there are subtle changes you can measure but not hear. If you hear it it can easily be measured as modern test equipment is far more sensitive than any human ears including millercarbon's. I would also insist that if I hear a difference all of you can hear it also. The reason I know that timing is very important with subwoofers is because I can delay any of my speakers in increments of 0.1 msec. Sound travels at about 1 foot/msec (13.38 inches at sea level to be exact) Delaying a speaker 1 msec is like moving it a foot away from you. At about 2 msec you can hear bass volume and transient response start to decline worsening as you increase the delay until eventually you hear a distinct echo at about 30 msec. Delays of 15 msec create a "chorus" effect. When all the speakers are time aligned you get the best transient response and imaging. In the bass this means impact which is vital for producing the "you are there" sensation. 

@chakster , in the lab? Cooking up toxic potions again? "Scully" by the way. 

@lewm , you are so mean! The Fuzz Linear 700 sounded a whole lot better than the Crown 300. I owned one. It had it's benefits over the tube amps of the day. The power was intoxicating and the bass was much better. Yes, it was a bit brittle sounding up top but back then most of us did not know any better. Like most young males it was all about volume. People say they were unreliable but I beat the crap out of it for 8 years through high school, collage and into grad school and it did just fine. My next amps were the high voltage tube amps in the back of Acoustat X's, quite a leap.

The best turntables sound like nothing, nothing at a constant speed. The best turntables are the ones that isolate the cartridge from everything happening around it. The cartridge is a very sensitive vibration detection device. It could care less whether the vibration comes from the record or anything else. If the turntable has a sound it is coming from the "anything else," be it a resonance in the tonearm board or bass coming up through the plinth. 

Just for fun I propose we all do an experiment. I can't do it myself as I do not currently have a turntable. Everyone can tell me what happens!
Place your stylus down on a record but do not turn the turntable on. Have your significant other hold their phone 12 inches away from the cartridge playing any song on the playlist. Turn your volume up all the way and put your ear right up to a speaker. Hear anything?

I guess if you can hear it, there is some way to measure it. That would mean that if you can’t measure it you can’t hear it. Thats where the major arguments were brewing with the SR camp and the measuring camp a few weeks ago that got pretty intense after some videos were posted. Didnt mean to fan those flames…..

i guess I’m in the measuring camp now. Sorry MC & Ted.