2. analog
  3. 151721-486

Who needs a Diamond Cantilever...? 💍

So suddenly, there seems to be a trend for Uber-LOMC cartridges released with Diamond Cantilevers...😱
As if the High-End MC cartridges were not already overpriced....?!
Orofon have released the MC-ANNA-DIAMOND after previously releasing the Limited Edition MC-CENTURY...also with Diamond Cantilever.
Then there’s the KOETSU BLOODSTONE PLATINUM and DYNAVECTOR KARAT 17D2 and ZYX ULTIMATE DIAMOND and probably several more.

But way back in 1980....Sony released a Diamond-Cantilevered version of its fine XL-88 LOMC Cartridge.
Imaginatively....they named this model the XL-88D and, because it was the most expensive phono cartridge in the world (costing 7500DM which was more expensive than a Volkswagen at the time)....Sony, cleverly disguised this rare beast to look EXACTLY like its ’cheap’ brother with its complex hybrid cantilever of "special light metal held by a carbon-fibre pipe both being held again by a rigid aluminium pipe".
The DIAMOND CANTILEVER on the 88D however......was a thing of BEAUTY and technological achievement, being formed from ONE PIECE OF DIAMOND including the stylus 🤯🙏🏽

I’ve owned the XL-88 for many years and recently discovered that it was my best (and favourite) cartridge when mounted in the heavy Fidelity Research S-3 Headshell on the SAEC WE-8000/ST 12" Tonearm around my VICTOR TT-101 TURNTABLE.
Without knowing this in advance.....I would not have been prepared to bid the extraordinary prices (at a Japanese Auction Site) that these rare cartridges keep commanding.
To find one in such STUNNING CONDITION with virtually no visible wear was beyond my expectations 😃

So how does it sound.....?
Is there a difference to the standard XL-88?
Is the Diamond Cantilever worth the huge price differential?
Is the Pope a Catholic....?

This cartridge simply ’blows my mind’...which is hard to do when I’ve had over 80 cartridges on 10 different arms mounted on two different turntables 🤯
As Syntax said on another Thread:-
When you have 2 identical carts, one regular cantilever and the other one with diamond cantilever (Koetsu Stones for example), the one with diamond cantilever shows more details, is a bit sharper in focus and the soundstage is a bit deeper and wider. They can sound a bit more detailed overall with improved dynamics
I’ll leave it at that for the time being. I will soon upload to YouTube, the sound comparisons between the two Sony versions on my HEAR MY CARTRIDGES THREAD.

But now I’ve bought myself a nightmarish scenario.......
There is no replacement stylus for this cartridge!
There is no replacement cantilever for this cartridge!
Each time I play records with it, I am ’killing’ it a bit more 🥴😥
If I knew how long I had left to live......I could program my ’listening sessions’ 🤪
But failing this.....I can’t help but feel slightly uncomfortable listening to this amazing machine.
128x128halcro
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,266 posts
 
Raul, that is sort of a wishy-washy answer. There are quality levels in all categories. My point is there are MM and MI cartridges that out perform some LOMC cartridges. There can be no question that the signal to noise ratio and dynamic capability are better. I am not saying that ultimately the highest performers are not LOMC cartridges. However, JC may think they are better but Joe Grado and Peter Ledermann did/do not. All these people have an iron in the fire and you have to interpret what they say as such.

You and I seem to have the same opinion of diamond cantilevers vs boron. Diamond may be stiffer but boron is lighter. Graphene is stiffer and lighter than both! Eventually someone will make a cantilever out of it. At any rate I think it is obvious that many think Boron makes the better cantilever for whatever reason. I suspect lightness trumps stiffness as inertia is critical. The stylus has to stop and start up to 16,000 times/sec. At least I think that is the highest frequency recorded on vinyl, is it not?

@nandric , I'm Jewish. Pure cunning. Never Again! God help Iran if they get close to a nuke.
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Raul, that is sort of a wishy-washy answer. There are quality levels in all categories. My point is there are MM and MI cartridges that out perform some LOMC cartridges.

Absolutely, no questions about it.

I’ll tell you more: there are MM cartridges that outperform MI or IM cartridges.

Also LOMC cartridges are different, some of them are too bad, some of them are amazing.

We can only say what we like in our systems with our gear.

For me it’s important to have all types of cartridges ready to use when I’m in the mood for MM, MI or MC. Using high quality cartridges, tonearms and phono stages I want to switch from one to another, because at certain mood I prefer one type of another. And there is no absolute for me. Two turntables and 4 tonearms are always in my system.

At the moment two different Fidelity-Research tonearms (64fx and 64s) and cartridges (fr7f and fr7fz) are battling in my system with 3 different phono stages (one is current-injection type) with additional LUX SUT and ZYX Headamp. Each has it’s own advantages, but they are all great, just slightly different flavor. My First Watt buffer preamp was off for a year or so and yesterday I put it back to compare to my bigger Pass Labs preamp. When another amp from my wantlist has arrives (Red Wine Audio 30.2) I put it in my main system and I was so happy about the sound, it’s battery powered amp in my system that never gets hot like my Yamamoto with nearly 100 y.o. RCA Globe tubes, or First Watt power amp ... those are super heaters.

In my opinion it’s nice to change the sound, it’s a sort of re-freshness.
Cartridge swap is always a good idea in this situation. If I prefer one variant today it’s not necessary that I will prefer it tomorrow. It’s important to have a choice, this is why I don’t understand people who can speak about one particular cartridge (or cartridge type) as an absolute best.

lewm
12,651 posts
 
+1 for chakster.
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,266 posts
 
I guess my brain works differently than lewm and chakster. When I have multiple set ups I always wind up preferring one of them and the others sit and languish taking up space and money. I have never had more than 4 cartridges at a time. I'll buy a cartridge and decide whether or not I like it better then sell the loser. Occasionally I'll use a cartridge for an extended period preferring to spend money on other parts of the system that require upgrade. I used a Grado Statement for over a decade. 
I might in the future go for a Dohmann Helix after he develops his vacuum clamping and dust cover. That table takes two arms. I can keep an high output cartridge on one and a low impedance moving coil on the other for different types of music but that is a very expensive endeavor. I really have not got room for two tables.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
12,901 posts
 
Dear @mijostyn : "  I am beginning to think moving coil cartridges are a waste of money and that you can get equal or better performance out of much less expensive moving magnet and iron cartridges. "

Everything the same ( as I posted before. ) there is no single MM that can outperform the LOMC.

You said that the LOMC cartridges has not the " punch " of the MM and by coincidence this kind of " punch " was what impressed me with hundreds of cartridge in the long thread and I posted several times down there. 
But that " punch " is non-accurated, the MM bass range it's not it has not the tigth LOMC bass performance that's more as what we listen in a live MUSIC even at near field position. 
Yes that " punch " could be addictive but " false ", it's a distorted frequency sound. The time decay in MM ( especially vintages. ) is way longer and with overhang. The best MM by a wide margin is the Technics EPC100 C MK4 ( stand alone version. ) and the closer one to a LOMC cartridge.

MI makes a better overal job and certainly are nearer to the LOMC ones but as @dover  posted if you have the rigth phonolinepreamp LOMC is a little superior design. 

""  My point is there are MM and MI cartridges that out perform some LOMC cartridges. ""

Of course that could be true but depends the choosed MM/MI against which LOMC is the comparison and in which room/audio system.

""  JC may think they are better...""

I think that he not only " think " that LOMC are better but can prove it if necessary.

Unfortunatelly we audiophiles puit a lot of subjectivity in our opinions  and almost no facts as comparisons against live MUSIC events seated a near field position. The main issue is not what we like but what is rigth or wrong.

Anyway, the thread is about diamond cantilevers.

R.
More to discover