2. speakers
  3. 168038-163433

Sopra 2 Bass

New member, first post, and newbie in terms of diving into the world of nice things. This world is insane! I've already been spiraling for a few months researching what to buy, AB'ing countless speakers and amps. I now own a McIntosh MA9000 that's driving my new Focal Sopra N2s via Kimber 12VS. My "dilemma" is with the lack of BASS. I demoed the N2s, so I know it's possible, but absent in my home. I have to use the tone controls (this is where you tear me apart) to bump the low end. I do not know if it's my room, lack of bass traps, or equipment, but I'm failing to get down a little lower without tone adjustments. I stream Tidal Masters to my wired Bluesound NODE 2i (optical to the MA9000 dac). My room is 11'x20.5' with a low, 7.5' ceiling. I have tried as many speaker positions as possible with little change. I already know I need to eliminate room echo in the center of the room and have been researching various acoustic treatments. I feel like I'm off to a good start, but now stuck, not totally satisfied. Yes, it's the best I've ever owned and mind-blowing amazing, emotional, etc, but just short of perfect for me. In tracks where I expect a punch, I get an unmoving transition... Can I get "there" with different wire? Should I consider a sub? Why do folks on this site use two subs? Do I need to hire someone to properly sound-treat the room? Is my room a lost cause for what I own? Reaching out because I'm stuck, afraid to waste money chasing dead ends. My budget is thin after the McIntosh and Focals. Any help would be so appreciated! I hope to learn, grow and pay it forward some day. Thank you.
izjjzi
izjjzi's avatar
izjjzi OP
104 posts
 
I am blown away by the number of responses. THANK YOU, everyone for your thoughtful input. You have given me a number of things to ponder and try. More detail and updates:

  • Only the speaker and power cables are new. The MA9000 was a store demo and was told might be "broken in". The Sopras are gently used and I'm not sure if they have enough hours or were even played at volume to be broken-in. 
  • I read bass from towers can cancel each other out and bass traps can solve for such. It's why I mentioned possible trying traps. Based on your feedback, I now may only need them if I go the subs route.
  • The only wall backing the Sopras is not flat. There is a 6.5" offset, which isn't on center. It is just over 6' from the left side. So if the Sopras are parallel, the left one will have an extra 6.5" behind it. The ocd in me is really bothered by this. I would love to know why it exists / was built this way!
  • I know there is nothing wrong with tone controls but I "feel" like spending this kind of money should grant you results that do not need tone assistance. Feels wrong writing this, but I want to be able to demo this system to my cousin and brother without having them comment on the fact I need to use them, because they will!
  • My VDI rack arrived yesterday and I can't way to set it up. Going to do so first before any suggested testing. :)
  • What is my "virtual system"? Happy to do so if I can get some guidance?
  • I did not hear the Sopras with the Mc, a risk, I know, but I did read reviews with the same MA9000 and Sorpras as well as other media that reported Mc and N2s were a good match. So far I am blown-away save for that elusive low end that led to this post. 
  • This will not be my last home. My next will either be built to suit or will have an "ideal" room for my music. 
My to-do list, in order, AND I am not going to stack advice. I plan on trying each from my current baseline settings and with the tone controls off on the Mc.

  1. @birdfan Set my NODE to subwoofer mode, which I did but cannot yet test the result. This setting reveals a crossover slider with no value but appears to be 1/4 up from 40Hz to a max of 200Hz
  2. I have seen my Mc display 96kHz(?... it was 96 something...)  from my NODE playing Tidal masters, but no better. Should I return it? What values should I see displayed?
  3. @erik_squires  \Play the same track from the 8, 4 and 2omh taps. Can't wait to try this.
  4. @ozzy and @mtrot  Move the Sopras 1' from the back wall. This is appealing as this room needs to be functional for things other than listening so it would be ideal if I don't have to place them well into the space.
  5. @ozzy and @mtrot Move the Sopras 1/3 into the room ~7'. Part of me hopes this does not work. My wife will strangle me. Yet, if it works it will be terrific data.
  6. @onhwy61 and @speakermaster Will look into an SPL meter / software, etc. My brother works for a commercial AV company and may have access to a good one. 
  7. @james633 very helpful if I go the sub route.
Don't know why I could not @ some of you, but again, thank you everyone for your responses! I have a fun afternoon ahead of me. I will report back on each experiment in a detailed summary. 

izjjzi's avatar
izjjzi OP
104 posts
 
Correction @birdfan - I think you meant to write NOT on subwoofer mode, which now makes more sense to me, so my #1 above will not be something I test. The node defaults to subwoofer mode off and I will leave it off.

@curiousjim The seller demoed them to me. I did not ask or notice anything that went into the output. I was there to pick them up. The only thing I noted was the nice area rug, high ceiling and I would guess placement was about 1/5 (room x,y) from the corners. 

@sandthemall as you can see from above, your 1/5 comment is what I observed with the previous owner. And...

@Everyone - I failed to mention that the floors are reflective without any rug at this time. I have a cheap, Persian style rug I can use and will include this as a test. I have already been shopping for something I can place as needed and roll-up remove as needed. Suggestions welcome (shag vs other vs brand) would like to do this on the cheap.
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,938 posts
 
The node has to go the only way to get good string is via usb which allows for true higj tested which you can’t get through optical

Your system will sound way better

Then get a good as sub we are the mj acoustics importer these a re better then rel 100percent made in the uk also with an advanced Bluetooth setup app

We are streaming experts

Please contact us for recommendations

Dave and troy
Audio intellect nj
james633
1,052 posts
 
Really the Mac is fine, more than fine. The output transformers don’t work like a tube amp (opposite actually) In tube amps the transformers are used to couple the low impedance of the speaker to high impedance tubes.  
In Mac solid state amps the transformers are use to reduce the load and let the amp put out the same wattage regardless of load.

if you end up with subs it sounds like your Mac has a built in highpass which will open up your sub options. 
There might be amps that give you more bass impact (pass labs probably) but bass smoothness and depth is a function of the room and speaker interaction. Focal’s can get a little edgy in the upper mids and highs and Macs get a little smooth in the upper mids and highs. They are a near perfect match imo. 
audiorusty
316 posts
 

This world is insane!
You have no idea
Great advice from Eric and James633.

Are you achieving satisfactory results when you use your tone controls? If you are I would stop and enjoy your system. You should not care what others think, it is your system for your enjoyment, not anyone else.

In tracks where I expect a punch.

Low end impact is a tall order for a couple of 7” woofers.

Should I consider a sub?

Maybe. What kind of music do you listen to. If you like rock or electronic and maybe even modern day country, a sub can be of substantial benefit. If you listen to other genres than maybe not so much.

Beware; while properly integrating subs into a system can bring great joy and satisfaction, improperly integrating a sub can bring great headaches and frustration.

Keep in mind that if you are pressurizing your room to 80 db SPL at 1K Hz you will need to pressurize the room to approximately 115 db SPL at 40 Hz in order to have 40 Hz sound equally as loud as 1K Hz (per ISO standard 226:2003, equal loudness curve)  Also keep in mind that with most rock music it is desired to have 40 and 50 Hz sound louder than 1K Hz.

Lastly, it is not always a lack of bass that is the problem but an overabundance of mid range. You probably are getting some room gain in your mid range frequency band. On your MA9000 you might try and bump up the 50 Hz, dial the 100 Hz back a tad and the 1K and 2.5K Hz controls back a bit more, or a lot if need be, and see how that sounds to you. 


More to discover