Huge sound stage

Lkdog,

I didn't mean to confuse you.....

The key here is 'properly set up' meaning that you have, for example, minimized your reflection points and are hearing the direct sounds from the speakers from the sweet spot. When you have set up your speakers and have not delt with the reflection points sufficiently then speakers which have a fairly flat output well off axis will in fact be bouncing in phase sounds off the walls, ceilings, floor, etc, and create are larger BUT more diffuse sound stage. That is exactly why so many folks pay such strict attention to room acoustic's and treatment, or some folks like omni's.

Another thing I have found is that when folks say they are hearing sound outside of the speakers, and its not out of phase sound from the recording itself, they are referring to sounds that are appearing well beyond the plane of the speakers (behind the speakers) but when you draw a line from the listener to the speaker and beyond to the wall, the sound still appears within the triangulated area.

It is inherrent in the stereo process that in-phase sounds heard thru speakers which are accurate reproducers, typical dynamic point source speakers for example (not omni's etc which are designed to put out a signal in many directions) will only be heard between the two speakers.

However, properly set up speakers, in a well treated room, will at the listening position, allow you to hear all of the recorded information, including out of phase information which is what give the impression of sounds beyond the sides of the speakers. If you don't set up your speakers exactly and treat your room accordingly, you will loose a lot of the very subtle out of phase info on the recording and you will only have sound between the two speakers.

This can easily be played with by using a test disc with in-phase and out of phase sounds. Using one of these disc's when playing out of phase you should not have a centered image at all, and if you are properly set up the sound should sound as if it were coming from all about your room - which, BTW, is a very tough condition to recreate! Its easy to get a vague sound in the part of the room with the speakers, but getting it to sound as if its coming from everywhere equally is a real challenge. And, as you might suspect, the better you can reproduce out of phase info the better your inphase (and overall) sound will become.

FWIW.

Newbee-

Well, your knowledge base is quite advanced on these elements. I have kind of learned along the way by trial and error.
I have worked fairly dilgently on speaker placement with respect to the listening triangle, toe in, height, coupling to stands, and basic room treatments (mostly absorption at first points of reflection, but overall room also).

When I got these ACI Jaguars-it literally took me a month of playing around in their placement with respect side and back walls and listening position. Ihad a tape measure out and was moving them a coupel inches at a time. It was interesting to hear how much speaker placement effects soundstage and presentation.
Of course, I also have a subwoofer that had to be re-integrated with the new monitors.

There seems to be part science and part art to this speaker and room setup thing.

It sounds pretty good most of the time and really good-sort of like "you are there" on very good recordings.

In answer to the first poster-I am a big believer in starting with a good source, but everyhting matters in this hobby. Everything.

Have fun!

Tgyeti,

Congratulations on your system! It seems you have found your Audio Nirvana (at least for the moment!).

As far as which component did what, I would not venture a guess (except that whatever components you replaced did not work in your system). From your description it seems the sound from your new components have created a synergistic effect. Sit back and enjoy the music!

In response to Newbee, is it possible Tgyeti's system is out of phase? Yes. Probable? No. If Merry Clayton is singing to your neighbor, the Atlanta Symphony is doing a wandering minstrel act or Gene Simmons is standing behind you licking your neck (err, scary thought!), I would have a problem. But if everything seems normal (at least to the recording engineer) and the system does what it is supposed to do, the soundstage can be as small as one person or as huge as an orchestra (or bigger!). That is just my interpretation of Tgyeti's statement. FWIW

In terms of which component contributed the most, I would say the one that replaced the weaker link. While Newbee is correct in his assertion that if the source doesn't get the info off the disc, it can't be reproduced, it is also true that a weak component anywhere in the chain can lose that info. I have only carefully auditioned a handful of pre-amps, nad have always been amazed at how much they can change the sound. It seems like they have an easy job, but it's difficult to find a good one.

regarding the phase issue, if you have good bass, you probably don't have any phase problems (unless you are bi-amping). I have heard the effect Newbee describes in car audio, if I had, say, the two midranges out of phase. It sounds sool for a few minutes, then just wierd.

The Musical Fidelity A5 is great at the big 3 dimensional soundstage. I know this was an area of considerable improvement when I added it to my system over a stock Denon 2900. Of course, this element was improved upon with the addition of a tube integrated amp as well.