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Who needs a Diamond Cantilever...? 💍

So suddenly, there seems to be a trend for Uber-LOMC cartridges released with Diamond Cantilevers...😱
As if the High-End MC cartridges were not already overpriced....?!
Orofon have released the MC-ANNA-DIAMOND after previously releasing the Limited Edition MC-CENTURY...also with Diamond Cantilever.
Then there’s the KOETSU BLOODSTONE PLATINUM and DYNAVECTOR KARAT 17D2 and ZYX ULTIMATE DIAMOND and probably several more.

But way back in 1980....Sony released a Diamond-Cantilevered version of its fine XL-88 LOMC Cartridge.
Imaginatively....they named this model the XL-88D and, because it was the most expensive phono cartridge in the world (costing 7500DM which was more expensive than a Volkswagen at the time)....Sony, cleverly disguised this rare beast to look EXACTLY like its ’cheap’ brother with its complex hybrid cantilever of "special light metal held by a carbon-fibre pipe both being held again by a rigid aluminium pipe".
The DIAMOND CANTILEVER on the 88D however......was a thing of BEAUTY and technological achievement, being formed from ONE PIECE OF DIAMOND including the stylus 🤯🙏🏽

I’ve owned the XL-88 for many years and recently discovered that it was my best (and favourite) cartridge when mounted in the heavy Fidelity Research S-3 Headshell on the SAEC WE-8000/ST 12" Tonearm around my VICTOR TT-101 TURNTABLE.
Without knowing this in advance.....I would not have been prepared to bid the extraordinary prices (at a Japanese Auction Site) that these rare cartridges keep commanding.
To find one in such STUNNING CONDITION with virtually no visible wear was beyond my expectations 😃

So how does it sound.....?
Is there a difference to the standard XL-88?
Is the Diamond Cantilever worth the huge price differential?
Is the Pope a Catholic....?

This cartridge simply ’blows my mind’...which is hard to do when I’ve had over 80 cartridges on 10 different arms mounted on two different turntables 🤯
As Syntax said on another Thread:-
When you have 2 identical carts, one regular cantilever and the other one with diamond cantilever (Koetsu Stones for example), the one with diamond cantilever shows more details, is a bit sharper in focus and the soundstage is a bit deeper and wider. They can sound a bit more detailed overall with improved dynamics
I’ll leave it at that for the time being. I will soon upload to YouTube, the sound comparisons between the two Sony versions on my HEAR MY CARTRIDGES THREAD.

But now I’ve bought myself a nightmarish scenario.......
There is no replacement stylus for this cartridge!
There is no replacement cantilever for this cartridge!
Each time I play records with it, I am ’killing’ it a bit more 🥴😥
If I knew how long I had left to live......I could program my ’listening sessions’ 🤪
But failing this.....I can’t help but feel slightly uncomfortable listening to this amazing machine.
128x128halcro
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@intactaudio

I posted before, but look again, those are vintage:

This is Sapphire Astrion cantilever of ADC.
This is Beryllium cantilever of Victor X1II.
This is Titanium Pipe of Victor X1IIE
This is Boron Pipe of Technics 205c mk4
This is RUBY cantilever of Dynavector
This is Diamond cantilever of Dynavector

Aside from the one piece diamond cantilever/tip combo, what historical method of mounting a diamond to a cantilever is no longer available today?


Modern method is normally a drop of glue on a rod type cantilevers around stylus tip. SoundSmith methos is a drop of glue in front of the cantilever. Same for Ortofon method.

As you know they can’t use a proper method like this anymore, because they don’t have Boron Pipe any longer. Since the Boron considered the most advanced type of the cantilever this this is where we have big difference between old vs. new methods.

This is old method, it’s Grace LEVEL II Boron Pipe / Micro Ridge.

Nowadays they might have titanium pipe or zirconia pipe, but not Boron Pipe.


Under a microscope, the namiki Sapphire cantilever/microridge combo is a thing of beauty but the "retipped" boron / microridge combo sounds substantially better in my experiences.

I am not trying to say what is better, this is a personal thing, I’m trying to show a difference on pictures.

But comparing same cart with different styli (genuine vs. re-cantilevered) the Boron Pipe was the best sounding and it was genuine. And Technics explained why.

My example is Technics because I can’t add any documents from Grace, Audio-Technica, Sony .... buy Boron Pipe was their choice too (along with Beryllium) for the most expensive models up to the late ’80s - early ’90s.

mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,496 posts
 
Chakster, It is being done this way for a reason. Modern adhesives are very strong and light. It is easier to align the stylus and keep it aligned while the glue is set by UV. The square shank indexes the cut surface of the cantilever  which is set at the right angle. The end result is much lighter and tough enough to stand regular service. It is easier to knock the stylus off if the cartridge is miss handled. There is nothing special about those old cantilevers. That diamond cantilever is a boat anchor. It is too short and way to fat, an experiment perhaps. If nobody else does it that way there is a reason. Lasers are better than ever. Blasting a little hole through a cantilever is child's play. But, then you are left with the mass of material beyond the stylus hole in exactly the wrong place. What you are showing us is outdated technology.
intactaudio
300 posts
 
Chakster...  

Your argument seems to be that boron pipe is no longer available.  I agree.  The rest of your argument makes no sense.  If you are saying nobody nude mounts like your boron pipe example, namiki does it with zirconium tube.  Both Namiki and Ogura cut holes through their sapphire / ruby / diamond cantilevers to hold the diamond shaft prior to adhesive and while Namiki does only use glue for their Boron cantilevers Ogura has the typical mounting method used in all of your referenced pictures.

dave


best-groove's avatar
best-groove
842 posts
 
Modern adhesives are very strong and light. It is easier to align the stylus and keep it aligned while the glue is set by UV

With the gluing system without embed as indicated by Chakster, it is necessary to be very careful in cleaning the stylus with the appropriate cleaning liquids; there is a serious danger of unglue the stylus from the cantilever.
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Your argument seems to be that boron pipe is no longer available. I agree.

Boron Pipe is lighter than Boron Rod, laser mounted stylus tip on Boron pipe is also lighter, the moving mass is lighter and this is important for a high-end cartridge. It is extremely important for MM or MI cartridges and their high frequency reproduction. 

Ceramic Pipe cantilever from Grace is no longer availabe, that was one of the rarest cantilever ever! 

Beryllium Pipe from Audio-Technica is not available, it was Gold-Plated.  

Beryllium cantilever from Victor is no longer available and it was quite unusual, look at the stylus. 

Also look at Titanium Pipe from Victor. 

The rest of your argument makes no sense.


So you ignored my point about Ortofon and SoundSmith cantilever systems with the diamond mounted not under the cantilever, but in front of the cantilever rod? 

If you are saying nobody nude mounts like your boron pipe example, namiki does it with zirconium tube.


Zicronia pipe is nowhere near Boron Pipe properties. My thread about Zirconia Pipe Cantilever is on audiogon since 2020 and people know nothing about this type of cantilever. Do you have any cartridge with Zirconia cantilever? 

I think titanium pipe may be still available, I'm not sure. 


Both Namiki and Ogura cut holes through their sapphire / ruby / diamond cantilevers to hold the diamond shaft prior to adhesive and while Namiki does only use glue for their Boron cantilevers Ogura has the typical mounting method used in all of your referenced pictures.

The diamond cantilever and stylus mentioned in this thread by OP is cut from one piece of diamond, this is unique method, no longer available. 

Sapphire or Ruby from Namiki are OK (not identical to old Sapphire or Ruby though). But look at SoundSmith Ruby is you want to see something completely different from anything else.  

Enough said, when we discuss cantilevers I always think that people have no memory at all, it's been said so many times on audiogon. 

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