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  3. 151721-486

Who needs a Diamond Cantilever...? 💍

So suddenly, there seems to be a trend for Uber-LOMC cartridges released with Diamond Cantilevers...😱
As if the High-End MC cartridges were not already overpriced....?!
Orofon have released the MC-ANNA-DIAMOND after previously releasing the Limited Edition MC-CENTURY...also with Diamond Cantilever.
Then there’s the KOETSU BLOODSTONE PLATINUM and DYNAVECTOR KARAT 17D2 and ZYX ULTIMATE DIAMOND and probably several more.

But way back in 1980....Sony released a Diamond-Cantilevered version of its fine XL-88 LOMC Cartridge.
Imaginatively....they named this model the XL-88D and, because it was the most expensive phono cartridge in the world (costing 7500DM which was more expensive than a Volkswagen at the time)....Sony, cleverly disguised this rare beast to look EXACTLY like its ’cheap’ brother with its complex hybrid cantilever of "special light metal held by a carbon-fibre pipe both being held again by a rigid aluminium pipe".
The DIAMOND CANTILEVER on the 88D however......was a thing of BEAUTY and technological achievement, being formed from ONE PIECE OF DIAMOND including the stylus 🤯🙏🏽

I’ve owned the XL-88 for many years and recently discovered that it was my best (and favourite) cartridge when mounted in the heavy Fidelity Research S-3 Headshell on the SAEC WE-8000/ST 12" Tonearm around my VICTOR TT-101 TURNTABLE.
Without knowing this in advance.....I would not have been prepared to bid the extraordinary prices (at a Japanese Auction Site) that these rare cartridges keep commanding.
To find one in such STUNNING CONDITION with virtually no visible wear was beyond my expectations 😃

So how does it sound.....?
Is there a difference to the standard XL-88?
Is the Diamond Cantilever worth the huge price differential?
Is the Pope a Catholic....?

This cartridge simply ’blows my mind’...which is hard to do when I’ve had over 80 cartridges on 10 different arms mounted on two different turntables 🤯
As Syntax said on another Thread:-
When you have 2 identical carts, one regular cantilever and the other one with diamond cantilever (Koetsu Stones for example), the one with diamond cantilever shows more details, is a bit sharper in focus and the soundstage is a bit deeper and wider. They can sound a bit more detailed overall with improved dynamics
I’ll leave it at that for the time being. I will soon upload to YouTube, the sound comparisons between the two Sony versions on my HEAR MY CARTRIDGES THREAD.

But now I’ve bought myself a nightmarish scenario.......
There is no replacement stylus for this cartridge!
There is no replacement cantilever for this cartridge!
Each time I play records with it, I am ’killing’ it a bit more 🥴😥
If I knew how long I had left to live......I could program my ’listening sessions’ 🤪
But failing this.....I can’t help but feel slightly uncomfortable listening to this amazing machine.
halcro
dover
2,337 posts
 
@intactaudio 

Dovers only complaint seems to be centered on the visual look opposed to the actual quality / strength of the junction and I do not consider that alone to be a valid judgement of quality.

Actually I have on hand both the original Sumiko Talisman S sapphire cantilever with nude mounted line contact and also another Taslisman S retipped by the original Garrott Bros with a Namiki microscanner sylus in the original sapphire tube cantilever.

In a direct comparison the original is cleaner, more precise across the range. The Garrott retipped Talisman with microscanner has a fuller midrange, perhaps a little more evolved, but overall it is not as crisp as the orignal - the original is better.

Interestingly I pulled out the Talisman paperwork and Sumiko describes it at follows
"line contact stylus as above, laser mounted so that cantilever and stylus act as though they'd been shaped from a single diamond crystal."

Remember this cartridge was a Sumiko badged Sony Soundtech design, so clearly they focussed on the rigidity of the stylus/cantilever joint.

rauliruegas
13,129 posts
 
Dear @dover  : What you did not mentuioned yet is that the Sumiko Talisman ( all 3 models ) are truly good quality performers.

I was not aware that were a Sony design/builder in those old times. I still own two of them and really like me.

I don't know if the 88D is a yoke less design because the Talisman it's a yoke less that they patented as Direct Field Focus that " eliminates unnecessary yokes and pole pieces ".

The cartridge is a small one but a big quality performer and even that the models have different build material cantilever and stylus tip all have the same compliance and same cartridge weigth ( 6.3gr. )

The cantilevers are: aluminum/magnesium alloy, boron and sapphire. .

Certainly these Talisman are not ordinary LOMC cartridges.


@intactaudio   ""  A few years back when one of the two boron rod manufactures in Japan closed its doors overnight there was a worldwide shortage of boron cantilevers.  Boron rod eventually came back on the scene and is my current favorite.  "

If I remember due to that " even T JC took precaution and I understand that he bougth boron for his designs.

Btw, hollow boron is way more resonant that a solid/rod boron. I'm not just talking but at least other 2 gentlemans experienced that when our EPC 100C MK4 were fixed with solid boron instead the original tube. 

The most critical/crucial issue on cantilever/stylus is to find out the less resonant one and here the cantilever can " speaks " for it self.

R.


chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
The only reason "to fix" Technics P100 mk4 cartridge is softened suspension and the only reason to justify a complete rebuild is to claim that "new cantilever is better" (of course). A working sample with a perfect suspension is almost impossible to find, so the buyer have no chance to hear the potential of this cartridge and must proceed with rebuild (new cantilever/stylus combo and new suspension) or stop using this cartridge after all because of the full collapse of the damper. One problem with rebuild: no one will do that, in the past it was VdH (the most expensive service). Normal people can’t contact Vdh directly like they can contact SoundSmith directly (who will refuse this job with this particular cart).

Anyway, if someone can hear a resonance of the cantilever by ears I am happy for this person, he has a perfect hearing abilities.

The rest is just academic research for those who interested.






rauliruegas
13,129 posts
 
Btw, that Talisman aluminum/magnesium cantilever alloy ( for what I remember ) was unique and did it to make the resonant aluminum less resonant through the magnesium combination.

@dover  if you own two samples that could means that you like it.

R.
unreceivedogma's avatar
unreceivedogma
1,131 posts
 
I’m finding this discussion to be rather useless, and therefore, exhausting. Do we have any measurable data or blind studies that show that any of this matters?

Buy a cartridge that is good enough (any Koetsu, my personal preference, will do), that is compatible with your system sit back and enjoy the music.
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