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  3. 151721-486

Who needs a Diamond Cantilever...? šŸ’

So suddenly, there seems to be a trend for Uber-LOMC cartridges released with Diamond Cantilevers...šŸ˜±
As if the High-End MC cartridges were not already overpriced....?!
Orofon have released the MC-ANNA-DIAMOND after previously releasing the Limited Edition MC-CENTURY...also with Diamond Cantilever.
Then thereā€™s the KOETSU BLOODSTONE PLATINUM and DYNAVECTOR KARAT 17D2 and ZYX ULTIMATE DIAMOND and probably several more.

But way back in 1980....Sony released a Diamond-Cantilevered version of its fine XL-88 LOMC Cartridge.
Imaginatively....they named this model the XL-88D and, because it was the most expensive phono cartridge in the world (costing 7500DM which was more expensive than a Volkswagen at the time)....Sony, cleverly disguised this rare beast to look EXACTLY like its ā€™cheapā€™ brother with its complex hybrid cantilever of "special light metal held by a carbon-fibre pipe both being held again by a rigid aluminium pipe".
The DIAMOND CANTILEVER on the 88D however......was a thing of BEAUTY and technological achievement, being formed from ONE PIECE OF DIAMOND including the stylus šŸ¤ÆšŸ™šŸ½

Iā€™ve owned the XL-88 for many years and recently discovered that it was my best (and favourite) cartridge when mounted in the heavy Fidelity Research S-3 Headshell on the SAEC WE-8000/ST 12" Tonearm around my VICTOR TT-101 TURNTABLE.
Without knowing this in advance.....I would not have been prepared to bid the extraordinary prices (at a Japanese Auction Site) that these rare cartridges keep commanding.
To find one in such STUNNING CONDITION with virtually no visible wear was beyond my expectations šŸ˜ƒ

So how does it sound.....?
Is there a difference to the standard XL-88?
Is the Diamond Cantilever worth the huge price differential?
Is the Pope a Catholic....?

This cartridge simply ā€™blows my mindā€™...which is hard to do when Iā€™ve had over 80 cartridges on 10 different arms mounted on two different turntables šŸ¤Æ
As Syntax said on another Thread:-
When you have 2 identical carts, one regular cantilever and the other one with diamond cantilever (Koetsu Stones for example), the one with diamond cantilever shows more details, is a bit sharper in focus and the soundstage is a bit deeper and wider. They can sound a bit more detailed overall with improved dynamics
Iā€™ll leave it at that for the time being. I will soon upload to YouTube, the sound comparisons between the two Sony versions on my HEAR MY CARTRIDGES THREAD.

But now Iā€™ve bought myself a nightmarish scenario.......
There is no replacement stylus for this cartridge!
There is no replacement cantilever for this cartridge!
Each time I play records with it, I am ā€™killingā€™ it a bit more šŸ„“šŸ˜„
If I knew how long I had left to live......I could program my ā€™listening sessionsā€™ šŸ¤Ŗ
But failing this.....I canā€™t help but feel slightly uncomfortable listening to this amazing machine.
128x128halcro
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rauliruegas
13,051 posts
 
Dear @halcroĀ  : """Ā  WHY we are able to hear such differences between cartridges, tonearms, turntables, drive-systems, solid state vs vacuum tube.....should make it obvious that we are in the hands of ā€™Artistsā€™, ā€™Creatorsā€™..."""

""""Ā  This state of affairs has not existed in ā€™Analogue Audioā€™ for 30 years and the elder masters and craftsmen have virtually all disappeared together with the vast data-banks they had assembled within their mega-billion $ companies.
The result has been, that the recent resurgence of ā€™Analogue Audioā€™ has inevitably led to ā€™self-taughtā€™, under-educated and inexperienced ā€™newbiesā€™ entering the industry to fill the vacuum.
Their sole contribution to the ā€™Art/Scienceā€™ of cartridge, tonearm and turntable design is ā€™technologyā€™ šŸ™
They believe that everything can be improved by the advancements in materials science, computers, lasers, 3D printing, CNC machining, chemistry etc.

They are mistaken.....!
And so are all the gullible, innocent followers of most of the new analogue products launched over the last 15 years. """"


I think that when you postedĀ  that dayyou wake up very " romantic " and yesĀ  about vintage analog rig there is " romanticism " around it.

Look, your tonearm that comes from the Cobra one really is about computer software " technology " . Its shape has nothing to do with that art you mentioned. In its site you can read:


"""""Ā 

Ā A complex shape and choice of materials demonstrates a departure from the norm in the commercially available alternatives.

Just as Caliburn, the turntable, revolutionised turntable design by use of FEA software and shape optimisation, so too Continuum Audio Laboratories has used the same software technology to derive the new shape and performance parameters of the potent Cobra tonearm.Ā  """""


When you posted this :Ā  "Ā  innocent followers of most..."

You forgot to mention: " me included " because you owned TW TT, ZYX , Da Vinci and otherĀ  items coming from " mistaken " designers/manufacturers.

Could you try to tell us what's wrong with the Ortofon A95 or the Xquisite or Etsuro or Lyra Etna Lambda cartridges and many today " mistaken " designs? or what's wrong with Kuzma 4 point, SME 5, Reed, etc, etc. tonearms? or what's wrong with the @jtinn DD Wave Kinetics turntable?


Of that you can to follow living in the " past " because is what you enjoy through your listening sessions butevery hting in erth is moving on at each " second " and normally for the better ( sometimes is not. ).


Like you I love MUSIC and certainly LPs too but from some time now digital is a superior alternative. Like it or not you can't stop " mistaken " digital technology ( with out that your tonearm just does not existed. ).


I enjoy both alternatives and if you know how to use technology is always welcomed and that's what all those today " mistaken " designers/manufacturers are doing day after day.


You can live sticked to your " art " when all the audio world ( not only analog rig but electronics and the like. ) is MOVE ON in favor of MUSIC.


As you all these is only my opinion, I respect yours.


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.




chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Chakster, if by VdH, you mean Van den Hul: I have been sending my cartridges to him for 25 years minimum. Iā€™m a ā€œnormalā€ person (if I put aside the fact that Iā€™m an audiophile) and I speak to people there, get emails back and forth...


When youā€™ve been sending your cartridges to him 20-25 years ego it was way before internet communication became worldwide standard and a big part of our life.

Itā€™s obvious that you build your personal relations with Mr. Van den Hul in 20th century, now itā€™s 21st century :) You became his customer long time ago and all you need is to ask him by email when you need his help, because youā€™re his customer for 25 years. This is fine, I like it!

BUT when people like me would like to contact him itā€™s impossible! Customers can do that ONLY via his distributors. When I asked local VdH distributor about rebuild/retip they did not even replied to my request! I am much closer to Netherlands than you, but I have to ask distributors according to VdH sales/service policy.

I doubt he proceed with rebuild/retip by his own nowadays, with exception made for his long time customers (or his own products) and his distributor will definitely add his margin to the final price for service @unreceivedogma



best-groove's avatar
best-groove
842 posts
 
When I asked local VdH distributor about rebuild/retip they did not even replied to my request!
Better this way ... maybe you saved your cartridge!

I would never send a cartridge to VDH first of all because he has the habit of signing by engraving with electric pen on the body all the cartridges that pass through his hands without the authorization of the customer and this is very irritating as well as indelibly ruining the virginity of the bodywork, second because in the 80s my brother sent a Nakamichi MC 1000 to replace the stylus and the cantilever and came back with a terrible job, basically a graft with a lump of glue to join the two parts that not even the worst retipped could do; moreover he has pasted personalized stickers on the whole original box and on the front of the cartridge, going to ruin the support if it were necessary to remove them.
I have read of other poorly executed works on the cartridges of the owners who later complained and this made me reflect that not all the cartridges that pass through his hands are perfect; I have several things to write but I prefer to stop here.
No no no I'm sorry ... I don't trust this character at all in the way he works, neither he nor his assistants, probably other owners are more fortunate.
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
@rauliruegas, Thanx, I thought there must be a reason so many top manufacturers would use boron rod aside from a nice flat end to glue a stylus too and index it correctly.
I had a Talisman S for years. I liked it a lot. It was small and light, tracked super well and imaged nicely. It was a little thin sounding overall in my system. Eventually a wire broke inside and one channel went dead. It was replaced by a Grado Statement.Ā 

The glue being used is probably softened by certain solvents. As an example ethanol will slowly dissolve epoxy. Water is no danger. In a pint of distilled water add two drops of J+J's Baby Shampoo. This works great as a stylus/cantilever cleaner and will not damage the glue. Glued on styli are tough enough to handle routine use just fine. They are not as tough as pressed in styli but there is considerably less mass were it counts. I did have the stylus off a Clearaudio Charisma vaporize not long ago but it was brand new and was replaced instantly by the importer Musical Surroundings. The replacement has been fine. You definitely do not want to drop or fumble the tonearm. I've always cued by hand but I think that is going to change. Schroder arms do not come with tonearm rests. Mr Schroder believes in avoiding anything not totally necessary hanging off his arms. He believes they resonate. I always lock my arms in place when I work on the cartridge. You can't work on an arm floating around, dangerous. So I made a cocobolo tonearm rest that will be attached to the Sota's plinth which I have been lead to believe I will have in two weeks or construction will start in two weeks, not clear:-(Ā 

In December I will be going to NYC for the audio show. On the way down I plan on stopping at Soundsmith to hear the Strain Gauge. I will try and get an answer from Mr Ledermann why he does not use a diamond cantilever. His best cartridges use ruby and cactus spines.Ā 
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
bestgrooove, that is interesting to hear about your experience with VDH.
Just in looking at pictures of his cartridges I always thought they looked amateurish. What you are saying does not surprise me at all but there are some people who swear by his work. I would never buy one because the workmanship is not up to the standards other manufacturers use. AHH, "but it is handmade!" I've got news for everyone, all cartridges are hand made. AHH, "but not by VDH himself!" I would rather have my cartridge built by a 26 year old woman with eagle eyes and rock steady hands. I'm 67 and I would never try to assemble a cartridge now. I can place sutures but I have to use one hand to steady the other. Working under a microscope would be a real mess.Ā 
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