Classic Ortofon Cartridges: The MC2000 MK II or the MC3000 MK II?

@lewm

If you and Raul believe that an aluminum oxide by itself can qualify as a ceramic after appropriate processing, ok.

Thats not what I said. Nowhere did I say "after appropriate processing".
I dont know why, but you are forever rephrasing other folks posts, including misrepresenting what they have said.

Let me spell it out for you

Aluminium Oxide is a ceramic oxide.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/materials-science/aluminum-oxide

Yikes, I didn't think body materials would lead to such a lively discussion. Given the hardness of the body used on the MC3000 MK II, which the Stereophile review says almost 9 on the Moh Scale of Hardness, while that scale shows titanium being 6. Apparently hardness is only part of the equation for resonance issues that are considered in body design. 

Nevertheless, all I was really trying to say is that this is a nice sounding cartridge. In the past I have had the Cadenza Red, Blue, Bronze, original Windfeld, and A90 in my systems. While each of these cartridges had a different presentation, I would say I find this Ortofon to be very close to being on equal footing. With the possible exception of the A90, but that cartridge has a unique presentation and kind of stands apart from other Ortofon cartridges. 

It may very well be possible that there are a level of differences that my system is not up to the task of presenting. Actually I find the tables I use to have very similar presentations, and this may be an end result of colorations further down the equipment chain. So lets talk about the system 

Speakers  JBL 4365 and pair of Velodyne HGS 12 subwoofers
Amplifier   AVM Audio AMP Essential monoblocks
Pre-Amplifier  Halcro DM 8
Phono Stage Esoteric E-03
Speaker wire  Wireworld Eclipse 8
Interconnects  Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8
Power cords  Pi Audio Group 
Power Conditioner  TLP Audio TF130 (previous one was a PS Audio P10)

Turntables 

Scheu Audio Das Laufwerk No2/Dynavector DV505/Ortofon MC 3000 II or Ikeda 9 Kawami

Well Tempered Reference/ZYX 4D

SOTA Cosmos Eclipse/SME V/Transfiguration Audio Proteus

There are differences in presentation to all three tables, but there are many many similarities. The SOTA is the most expansive and dynamic, while the WTR is a bit more rounded and relaxed, and the Scheu falls closer to the WTR tonally but a bit more defined and dynamic. 

Perhaps there are limitations in my gear that homogenize the sound. Perhaps one day I get tired of playing with tables and consolidate them into one top tier table I can afford and call it good. Use the digital rig for casual listening and simplify things with one table and a pair of cartridges. Maybe that happens one day, but probably not next week. 

I think the next step is to obtain a different SUT than the ones I have had and see what happens. To be honest this is a casual cartridge, so I don't want to spend multiple thousands on a SUT for a cartridge that cost me $900. But on the other hand, I don't want to kludge the whole thing together either. Perhaps I will look at vintage transformers and see what can be done that way. 

@neonknight playing around with SUT's can be a worthwhile endeavour as an alternative to an active phono amp. In my experience there's no way to predict if a given cartridge will 'like' the phono stage or SUT better, so it's fun every time you 'hit' a synergy, not unlike hitting on the right tonearm/cartridge combination.

That said, I can wholeheartedly recommend the Ortofon SUT's that were built for the '000' series: T-2000, T-3000, T-5000 and T-7500. They were not exactly cheap, but they do have silver wiring and we all know what new SUT's with silver wiring cost these days. Ebay prices are over the top, but I managed to find my T-3000 on Yahoo auction for a little under $1000.

With the exception of the T-2000 they all offer 30dB of gain with a 3-6 ohm impedance range, so suitable for most LOMC's. The T-2000 has 35dB gain to accommodate the extremily low output MC-2000, but that cartridge works great with the T-3000 as well. Its impedance range is fairly flexible too, so even your Proteus with 1 ohm impedance will sound great. And of course the synergy with your MC-3000mk2 is a given. Certainly worth a try!

Dearn @neonknight : "" It may very well be possible that there are a level of differences that my system is not up to the task of presenting. ""

Overall you own very good system. Your main cartridges are really good but I don’t know if are mated with the " rigth " tonearm. I owned the 505 not my cup of tea, I owned the 5 that’s is better tonearm. I had experiences with the SOTA TTs that are very good units but not with your other 2 TTs.

Maybe you could be rigth in your statement and maybe you can get higher resolution with some changes or fine tunnig in your analog rig.

In the other side your speakers woofer crossover is at 750 hz so in theory that driver is running with frequencies around 28hz-30hz to maybe 850hz-900hz, this is a wide range and the developed IMD is high and does not permits better resolution/definition on the critical reproduced frequencies in that range.

I don’t know if you use your subs as a reinforcing/go deep bass or if you are using its high pass filter to liberate the speakers of bass frequencies to lower the IMD and in this way achieve a better resolution/definition where it matters the most. This is that the subs handle frequencies from around 90hz and below it and the 4365 from 90hz and up. Doing this is critical for room/system higher overall quality performance levels.

R.

Dover, "Forever"?  Really?