Marantz 8B Conversion to Triode Mode Help


Does anyone know of a resource showing this conversion with pictures, video, or drawings for a novice. The instructions sound simple, but I am not sure I know the parts the simple instructions are referring to and would love some pictorial reinforcement. The instructions I've seen that are most clear are not identical, but are below. The manual seems to say move a resistor on each tube base, but there's more: 

  • It is necessary to unsolder one end of each of the four 100 ohm resistors (R20A, R 20B, R21A, and R21B) from the solder terminal steps mounted near the output tube sockets and reconnect them to pin 3 of their socket base. (This will leave resistors from pin 4 to pin 3 on each output tube socket. The screen tap wires — green and green/white — remain dead-ended at each terminal strip.) (Marantz instruction manual)

  • To convert this amp to triode mode, unsolder the screen grid resistors from the taps of the output transformer. Find those terminal lugs, and attach the now-unused wires to SEPARATE lugs. These wires must remain unconnected to anything! If you have to put some heat shrink on the ends of the wires (don't do anything rash like cutting them short in case you change your mind or sell the amp on to a collector) & tuck them out of harm's way instead, do that. Connect the screen resistor (100 ohms?) wired to pin #4 to the anode, which is pin #3. (Joe Rosen on Tube Asylum)

  • The 8b can be converted to Triode by moving a resistor on each EL-34 output tube. Output will drop to around 18wrms p/ch. The original manual shows how to do this. (Tube Asylum)
peterf6
As for why would I consider doing this to an 8b, I would try it to see what it sounds like. This exact mod is described in the consumer Instruction Manual that came with the amp in the 1960s when consumers owned soldering irons, so it's not really a sacrilege, just an option. I've read about numerous people doing it and reporting interesting sound. It can be reversed, and amps this old from this era have typically been worked on to stay at spec.
Ultra linear, if done properly, causes the output section to behave as if it is triode rather than pentode or tetrode. Marantz did a pretty good job of getting the taps right on their output transformers (there was a patent in the area that prevented them from getting them perfect without infringement).


Depending on how the output section is set up (UL has more gain than triode operation) the amount of feedback that is present will change and may not be ideal. I think this is why Saul didn't offer the triode operation as a switch: it simply wasn't worth it given all the variables that arise! I have heard the model 9 in both UL and Triode; with that amp triode is the way to go. One thing to keep in mind: if you are operating the power tubes in triode mode, the correct plate to plate load you'll need will be lower. This **might** mean that you would use the screen taps for the plates of the power tubes. The correct cathode current will be different too, since there is no longer screen current with which to contend. Then there is the issue of whether you are driving the tube with the traditional control grid, or if you are using the screen grid as input, or both.

Put another way, but simply wiring the tubes in triode and otherwise making no other changes will be 100% inconclusive. You won't be able to tell if triode is better, you'll just be hearing how the amp works with that mod and not otherwise optimized.


If I were you, I'd build up an amp from scratch that allows you to work with these variables rather than risk damaging an output transformer, a power transformer or otherwise damaging the value of an amp such as this! If you want to mess with stuff like this, do it with a Dynaco ST-70, which uses the same power tube and is also UL operation. ST-70s are a lot easier to find, have much wider aftermarket support and are less expensive to own and repair. I can also guarantee that if you mess with the innards of a Marantz, unless you really have your chops down, the fact that you were in there will be patently obvious to anyone looking at the amp at a later date!
Thanks @atmasphere for the thoughtful concerns. I will definitely consider the alternatives and do some more research on people who have done this mod on the 8b. 
Peter
@atmasphere
Thank you for the educational post! Wish to see more posts like this in this forum...

I will definitely consider the alternatives
@peter16 if you are really set on doing this, really consider getting a Dynaco ST70 as your test bed (even though they are getting pricey these days, they are a lot cheaper than a Marantz 8). You can set them up triode and see what you think; explore which tap to use, mess with the cathode current, see how the amount of drive needed affects things, see how the feedback value changed even though you didn't mess with the feedback network.


BTW the feedback is a non-trivial matter. In any tube amplifier it is a set of compromises, even it it appears to be simply a resistor. It can have far more effect on the sound of the amp than the difference between UL or triode mode! Quite literally without sorting all that out you really won't know what it is that you are hearing.


You might find a few people that have done this, but if they didn't cover all the bases their experience will be purely anecdotal and really won't tell you anything at all. Take this from an amplifier designer as a FWIW: triodes are very different from other power tubes- they have less gain and lower output impedance, which may well mean that if you want to hear what they are all about an entirely different output transformer might actually be the only way you can sort this out.


You never hear this on Audiogon, but a Dynaco ST-70 is a good amplifier in and of itself so have fun.