Hear my Cartridges....🎶

@halcro 

How are you. We are in lockdown here now, so sanding and painting is the daily routine. Tomorrow - more sanding and painting.

Well they are quite different - if I was a gastronome I would describe "A" as a fine consumme, "B" as gruel.

If I was attending a live performance and Maria sounded like "B" then I would ask the singer if she could put her teeth back in.

"A" has far more resolution, bandwidth, is quicker and communicates the tempo much better. The voice alone is vastly more transparent.Ditto with the orchestra.
"B" is bandwidth limited, the top end of Marias vocal has gone awol, leading edges of notes notes are lost. Both the orchestra and vocals are  homogeinised into a thick gruel. 

I would assume A is the moving coil - now you can tell me if you got me !

If A is the moving coil - I might hazard a guess its the Acoustical Sounds Palladian, its a little ragged at times.

Okay, I’ve finally made a serious attempt to listen through the limitations and distortions of the iPad speakers.

Cartridge A is much clearer and open than cartridge B. Much more dynamic as well but perhaps also a little edgy, if the distortion on these little ’speakers’ is anything to go by. Probably one of the modern high resolution MC’s, perhaps the Palladium which I’m not familiar with. I’d be surprised if it would turn out to be the XL-88D, which is also wide open and transparent, but has a more full bodied and warmer presentation (based on my experience with the Takai Lab Final version).

Cartridge B sounds very limited and constricted, almost AM sound compared to FM. It’s probably the MM cartridge, but this assumption is not based on any recognition of the ’species’, as I don’t have any MM’s to compare. It could just as well be a Denon DL103 or some other limited MC with a less advanced or perhaps even spherical tip. If so, than cartridge A would be the MM. In that case I’d be most curious to find out what it is and get one.

First try, so please be gentle with me 😔

Man, talk about pressure!

Excellent and astute observations by all. With a couple of exceptions, I agree with most of what has been written about these two cartridges. I may be stating the obvious, but I should also point out that while I generally prefer MC’s over MM’s, I don’t believe that any and every MC is superior to all MM’s. This thread has shown that handily; Halcro owns many fine MM’s. So far there seems to be pretty general agreement that cartridge A is superior to B. However, the question is not about preference, but identification of the type that each is.

By comparison, cartridge A exhibits some of the typical MC traits. As has been pointed out it seems to offer higher resolution than cartridge B leading one to think that it is of the MC type. However, the detail that this “higher” resolution gives is of the “more in your face” type. Cartridge B requires (allows) that the listener “lean into” the music instead of it being pushed in the direction of the listener.

“A” seems to present a more generous soundstage and with larger individual images. “B” ‘s soundstage seems more compact with smaller individual images. However, although it is smaller, “B” ‘s soundstage seems better proportioned, hence more realistic. When the voice enters, the accompanying woodwind arpeggiated filigrees are much more clearly set behind the singer, as they should be. That is a type of “resolution”, no?

At first, “A” seems to be more rhythmic. However, this may be due in part to the above observation about the more “up front” quality and possibly also the fact that the volume level heard from “A” is slightly higher than that of “B”.

”A” is more generous through the lower midrange and bass. However, it is also a little plummy in that range with a bit of overhang of bass notes. “B” is slightly leaner through this frequency range, but sounds more realistic due to the lack of the overhang which results in better pitch definition; it is easier to hear actual pitches from the basses and not just low frequency energy. This also makes it easier to hear when the bassoons play in unison with lower strings. Again, resolution of a sort.

To my ears, “B” is a better tracker than “A”. With “A” there is audible breakup, not just on the vocal’s dynamic peaks, but also leading up to those peaks. With “B” the sound sound stays fairly well controlled up until those peaks. “B” also does a better job with the passages in which the full orchestra plays along with the singer. “A” sounds more congested in those passages.

So far it could go either way. With the possible exception of the slightly plummy quality in the bass, which is fairly typical of MM’s, I have heard cartridges of either persuasion that exhibit the above characteristics. What tipped the scale for me is the following:

I can’t claim to have owned anywhere near as many different cartridges as have been heard on this thread, but in my experience there is one characteristic that I have heard from practically all MM’s that I seldom hear from a good MC…..with two exceptions. I almost always hear some degree of a kind of “gray” or bleached tonal quality in the sound of music played with even the best MM’s that is almost always absent with a good MC. This robs the sound of instruments and voice of their natural color; and hence their distinctiveness as heard in real life. I hear that quality from “A”. “B” lets one hear more of that natural timbral color. I mentioned the arpeggiated woodwind filigrees heard when the voice enters. With “B” it is obvious that the piccolo is a wooden piccolo. With “A” its not so obvious. Wood or metal? In the same passages, with “B” one hears more of the clarinet’s wonderful round quality; what players call a “pingy” sound. More importantly, each instrument’s color is very different. Once again, higher resolution of a sort. “A” homogenizes their (and the voice’s) individual colors and sounds a bit dry overall.  

There has been one MM cartridge’s that I have heard here that does not exhibit some degree of that tonal bleaching, the Victor X1. Another is the Azden which I own, but which is not nearly on the same level as the Victor overall; and highly unlikely to have been Halcro’s choice for MM. So, if “B” is in fact the Victor, then all bets are off. Otherwise, I will go out on a limb and in spite of the things heard that tell me that “A” SHOULD be the MC (and I do prefer “A” in some ways) I will play devil’s advocate and buck the trend by stating that “A” is the MM and “B” the MC.

😱

Btw, “A” is very reminiscent of the sound heard from the recent “Signet” MM with FR headshell. Edgewear’s “B”/Denon comment is something that also came to mind; although the Denon 103R that I own is not on the same level overall.

Fabulous.......!!! 👏
Thanks guys for all your comments....especially @noromance and  'virgin' @edgewear 😃
I wouldn't have been game enough to risk public humiliation 😳 although there is absolutely nothing shameful about getting this 'right' or 'wrong'....
That's exactly why I began this Thread in the first place!
To demonstrate AUDIBLY that good cartridges needn't necessarily cost an arm and a leg 💰

And thank you especially to @frogman who, although spending years patiently explaining to us the subtleties a musician like he can hear....has explained it again in a way that finally makes sense to even me!! 🤪

The only disappointment here is @dover .......
Aussies and Kiwis share many similarities.
One of the most noticable is their penchant for saying what they mean and never 'beating around the bush'!!!
Yet here we have @dover ......umming and aarhing....dillying and dallying and leaving us with no idea what he actually thinks 🤣

If I was attending a live performance and Maria sounded like "B" then I would ask the singer if she could put her teeth back in.

Priceless!!!!!

And now for the big 'reveal'......
Cartridge A
ORTOFON SPU Ae GOLD 
A vintage LOMC

Cartridge B
GLANZ MFG 610LX 
A vintage MM

That was fun. It's a relief that B was not the LDR!