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Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
128x128halcro
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Fabulous.......!!! 👏
Thanks guys for all your comments....especially @noromance and  'virgin' @edgewear 😃
I wouldn't have been game enough to risk public humiliation 😳 although there is absolutely nothing shameful about getting this 'right' or 'wrong'....
That's exactly why I began this Thread in the first place!
To demonstrate AUDIBLY that good cartridges needn't necessarily cost an arm and a leg 💰

And thank you especially to @frogman who, although spending years patiently explaining to us the subtleties a musician like he can hear....has explained it again in a way that finally makes sense to even me!! 🤪

The only disappointment here is @dover .......
Aussies and Kiwis share many similarities.
One of the most noticable is their penchant for saying what they mean and never 'beating around the bush'!!!
Yet here we have @dover ......umming and aarhing....dillying and dallying and leaving us with no idea what he actually thinks 🤣
If I was attending a live performance and Maria sounded like "B" then I would ask the singer if she could put her teeth back in.
Priceless!!!!!

And now for the big 'reveal'......
Cartridge A
ORTOFON SPU Ae GOLD 
A vintage LOMC

Cartridge B
GLANZ MFG 610LX 
A vintage MM
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,921 posts
 
That was fun. It's a relief that B was not the LDR!
dover
2,262 posts
 
@halcro 
Thanks for the reveal.
After @frogman 's last post I thought maybe I screwed up, unless he was being devil's advocate.

But alas "MM" for me is green eggs and ham. I knew "A" was a MC, as I called it, the only doubt was was it the Decca ? or a MI/IM, but it sounded too uneven to be a Decca.

I was surprised at some of frogman's qualitative comments - this has only happened once before - I think my standard i buds are presenting quite differently to his stax headphones as you would expect.

The actual cartridges are a surprise - my faded memeory of the SPU was a little warmer in tone than in the video.

Now the Glanz MFG 610LX is an interesting one - of course it is a moving flux, not a moving magnet. It sounds quite different to my MFG61 which would seem to be more extended in the top end.

I am wondering if your capacitance and/or resistive loading is out. It sounds like mine with too much capacitance. With the MFG61 the recommended capacitance is 100-150pf and resistance 47k. I'm running 146pf - to get there I have to change my phono cable to an ultralow capacitance Audioplan ( 46pf total  ) instead of my usual MIT which is very capacitive ( not a problem with MC's ). Try these and let us know - you will have to allow for your phono cable.
From what I can see on the net if you are using Cardas Golden Reference RCA , then 3m is about 120pf, and you would need about 30pf max on the phono input. If you are using CGR XL your cables are about 70pf, you would need 30-80 pf max on the phono input.

Great experiment - and as you say it shows we can hear differences via youtube video's online.
frogman
7,476 posts
 
Fun indeed!  Yes, playing devil’s advocate can get one in trouble.  My wife always tells me I like to be contrarian.   Much in the sound of “A” told me that it should be the MC, but still…… Thanks, Halcro.  Interesting as always.
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Thanks for the advice @dover re the Glanz MFG 610LX.
As you suggest.....I find mine to be PARTICULARLY sensitive to all the parameters of set-up, although that may be exacerbated by the fact that I have less than 100 hours playing time on it?

I found I was needing to load it at nearly 20 Ohms initially to tame its high-frequency response and I added about 100pf capacitance.
This was with a VTF of 1.35Gm......
That is how the YouTube video was recorded.

Strangely enough.....the day after posting the video, I was listening to it with some familiar music and it sounded awful 😟
After some adjusting....I increased the VTF to 1.5Gm, changed the loading to 40 Ohms and the Capacitance to 70pf together with subtle changes to VTA.

I don't think the adjustments are anyway near final and a lot more playing is obviously required.

What is your VTF on the MFG61?




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