Kinki studio EX-M1, EX-M1+ differences... vs Denafrips Hestia/ Hyperion combo?

@sns 

The extreme darkness, closed in voicing of Hyperion leads me to believe company doesn't voice their products towards the neutral.

After everything I've read on the Hestia/Hyperion/Athena, I don't think that there is any doubt that these units are all more full bodied than the Kinki gear which is (comparatively) cooler/leaner/quicker and more overtly detailed. 

Srajan, who prefers the cooler/leaner/quicker "Swiss" sound, makes this point in his comparisons but notes that the delta is small and that his preference would depend on which speakers were in use or even how lively the room was, that it was a case of fine tuning. His testing of the Hestia and Hyperion together indicates that they are both similarly voiced (and the Terminator too) but he doesn't seem to indicate that even using them together takes these traits too far.  

Obviously it also comes down to personal taste as well but I think that you are the first person I've seen to go so far as to use "extreme darkness and closed in" to describe the Hyperion. I do prefer a touch of warmth, full bodied-ness and organicness to overtly detailed, lean or analytical but extreme darkness makes me think twice about purchasing a Denafrips preamp or amp.

Can I ask what amp(s) you compared in that system that made the Hyperion sound extremely dark and closed in? And the speakers used?
 

So after I started this post I went bonkers.  I now have the First Watt F8, a Yamaha B-2 (Vfet), built the Nelson Pass Amp Camp Amp and have a BHK Pre on order.  I have to say the F8 and the B-2 are amazing amps.  Comparing the characteristics of these amps vs the $100 Class D SMSL SA 300 that I also have, I learned that I really enjoy the forward midrange presentation... or vocals that are more forward, if that's what forward midrange presentation means.  I'm still very curious about the kinki and denafrips offerings but need to calm down on the spending.

@dkerr For amps I have Coincident Turbo 845SET,Art Audio Carissa Signature 845SET,  custom built 300B SET monoblocks, Prima Luna Dialogue Four (modded with Takman resistors and Miflex and Mundorf capacitors, use exclusively with EL34 these days), Coincident Statement line stage, Klipschorns (extensively modded, only bass enclosure stock).
I also had Musical Fidelity M2si ss integrated amp in for audition at same time as Hyperion, MF sound signature light and lively compared to Hyperion. All my amps more modern sound SET in nature, not rolled off on top, tight bass. Klipschorns, and all Klipsch generally thought of as bright speakers, mine far more refined, but definitely not dark.
I really dislike criticizing equipment, but I have to say, Hyperion had perhaps the most apparent sound signature I've ever encountered in an amp. I've also been through many other push pull tube and class A ss amps over many years, none, with perhaps a Conrad Johnson MV-55 were quite this tilted towards the warm. It wasn't just the sound signature that bothered me, it didn't resolve very well either, smaller soundstage, less dimensional imaging, obscured lower level details. I actually thought the amp broken or no burn in at first. Both were accounted for, no issues here. For what its worth, guy I purchased from had perhaps seven, eight amps in house, this was the only one selling, and he didn't keep long.
 The only way I could see Hyperion working is in extremely up tilted system and/or for someone who enjoys warm syrupy sound. For context, In spite of my preference for SET tube amps I prefer slightly to the analytical side of neutral, Hyperion on far end of warm in my system and for my ears.

I've recommended the MF2si any number of times to those seeking a nice sweet sounding ss integrated. Don't let the $1k price fool you, relatively low powered ss has always worked best for me. I'd for sure check into the First Watt, would be my first choice for low powered ss, many flavors available Still, based on your stated sound preferences, I'm not sure any ss will deliver the full measure on those.

@sns  Wow, thanks so much for the detailed response. It provides great context and much for me to think about. 

I've never heard a First Watt amp class A amp but can't go for a class A amp given that one of the justifications for a new amp is that it will fit inside my low profile cabinet (shelves are only about 8" high). I had a big Plinius SA100 mk3 many years ago and liked it but it seemed to have a slight haze that masked detail.

based on your stated sound preferences, I'm not sure any ss will deliver the full measure on those.

That thought has been in the back of my mind too. But the Kinki EX-M1 integrated came VERY close to dislodging my tube preamp AND tube amp. A different sound ... more dynamic, punchy, detailed (but smooth and not bright or aggressive), robust, exciting ... but I wanted for just a touch more organicness, palpability, harmonic completeness ... I love tone more than hyper detail.

Overall my system is fairly neutral but just a little closer to the "full bodied  and relaxing" end than the "faster and exciting" end. I want to move it slightly toward the faster and exciting side but without any brightness, glare, leanness or analytical sound.

Maybe my tube pre with say the Kinki M7 would achieve this ... and get the amp inside the cabinet ... the M7's input sensitivity of 1.45v (as opposed to my Rogue's 1.0v) would help with the gain issue (the Rogue has 29dB gain, I'm unsure of the M7). This setup still wouldn't enable me to use balanced out from the Spring DAC but maybe I could live with this given the potential benefit from the M7 *IF* it doesn't have the truncated harmonics (for want of a better description) that I heard in the EX-M1 integrated.

@arafiq 
 

I've been experimenting with some different gear lately in my second system. I picked up a Kinki EX-M1+ last week, and I must say my experience is almost the same as yours. It is a good competent amp and does all the 'modern' tricks of neutrality, detail, dynamics, etc. quite well. But just like you, I can't help but feel that something is amiss. I'm impressed but not moved.

I have been helping a family friend build his system based around tube amps. We bought a used VTL I-85 and it is an excellent amp. I'm so impressed that I'm thinking of buying one for myself now. It's not 'modern' sounding per se but it draws you into the music in a way that Kinki can never even dream of.

Funnily enough, the guy that bought the EX-M1 from me preferred it to his VTL ST-150 & modded Audionote M3 combo and sold them.

Different strokes ...