2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
logydoghan
57 posts
 
Yeah from Youtube I really don't have the ear for the differences in soundstage and details. I could hear that presentation 1 has more power and brighter. That may not translate to longer listening session though. Presentation 2 gives a more laid-back feeling yet still presents all the details. Presentation 2 has more of that high-end feeling.

If we put some more complicated cinematic music here like the Star Wars fanfare we can prob hear more differences between the two. But anyways this is a lot of fun and I will still give the class D amp big applause for the power it can deliver at a price point.

Again I think the speakers is where you put most of your money at. I think source makes a lot of differences as well. If someday Jay can do an A/B between his MSB and a Benchmark DAC or if he plays some DSD vs MP3 there will be more differences.

Pre-amp can change the sound by a lot too like the shoot out between Momentum HD and the Luxman. Amp can do that as well. But pre-amp and amp have more nuances because different brands have a different sound. Which one do you like is a matter of taste. I have listened to Gryphon Essence, Antileon and Mephisto. I like Essence the most. I understand it doesn't have the power of its big brothers but still I just prefer the sound that comes out of it. I also prefer the Luxman pre-amp more than the Momentum HD.

That said, we can say the Rouge Audio is a great amp for its price. But it's no giant killer because it is more do you prefer that bright sound or the laid-back sound.

lancelock
1,094 posts
 
@yyzsantabarbara 

you are right about the Coda #16. It’s crushing it in my system and can compete with anything discussed here.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
I listened to all three videos straight through, one after another.

I don’t think this is that close. It is easier than the DAC shootout.

I agree with WC’s description that one amp sounds like a DIY kit and one a refined, finished product.

I’ll note that I think WC’s music selection made this closer than it needed to be. None of the three music selections were very dynamic or complicated. They were all pretty simple, not much happening at any given time. Not a criticism, just an observation. On music like that, it is easier for an inferior product to keep up.

I don’t know whether WC kept the same amp as #1 and #2 each time but I think he did. I’ll assume he did.

For me amp #2 wins easily. Better all around in every way.

Why?

First, amp #1 has a much higher noise floor than does amp #2, and for that reason amp #2 sounds much more refined.

Second, while amp #1 sounds fine when things are simple (which as mentioned above is most of the time in these recordings), when things get more involved, it begins to fall apart. As one example, take the piano chords near the end of Private Investigations (video 2). Amp #2 sounds much more realistic as to how a real piano sounds versus amp #1. Most know that getting the piano to sound realistic is one of the most difficult things to do in audio reproduction. With single piano key notes, harder to distinguish, but get a succession of chords, and it becomes clear. So for me that tends to be a nice gauge of quality. No comparison in that regard for me between the two amps.

I could go on but suffice to say that amp 2 just sounds more authentic. Amp 1 sounds more contrived. I concur with the poster above who was adamant that 2 was better and many of the reasons he/she gave.

Goes without saying that this all through YouTube and probably we are getting 20% of the real thing this way, so I defer to WC’s take on actually being in the room. If he tells us that amp 1 blew away amp 2 in the room then I will have lost all respect for YT’s ability to convey what actually happening (whatever respect I have today that is).

I’ll close with a medical analogy. Amp #1 is Target Minute Clinic. Amp #2 is a full trauma hospital. If you have simplistic listening needs, or just have a scratchy throat and need a strep test, get amp #1 or go to Target Minute Clinic. You’ll be happier, it’ll be quicker, and cost less, and you’ll get the strep test and a prescription or the simple sonic presentation you will be happy with.

On the other hand, if you’re a more sophisticated listener with a broad palette of sonic requirements, or to switch to the medical side if you have medical needs beyond the trivial sore throat (maybe you have the onset of throat cancer where early diagnosis could be life saving), go to the hospital or associated clinic -> better odds of being satisfied with the sonic presentation or getting the life-saving intervention you need.

There you go, easy. Haha

Edit: I reread and realized I forgot to say that amp 1, if it is the Rouge, sounds amazing for a $1700 amp, and it sounds pretty good regardless of price. If amp #1 is the megabuck amp, then I know for sure I would never get that amp, haha. If amp #2 is the Rouge, then it is a YouTube star.  Thanks to Viber for sending his amp and to WC for the shootout.
viber6
2,448 posts
 
logydoghan,
Agree with everything except one point.  Both the Rouge and mystery amp are serious amps of great quality.  Different sounds for different tastes.  Each has advantages and drawbacks compared to the other.  It is incorrect to say that one is better than the other, especially since most honest people found them close.  Those who say that one blows away the other are merely hype-sters, salesmen, etc.  But it is correct to say that the Rouge is a great amp, and not just for the price.  

I hope in the near future cascadesphil brings his modded Voyager to Jay to compare with his mystery amp.  I predict that the Voyager will give everything the mystery amp does, and cascadesphil and Jay will honestly say that the Voyager is a great amp, and not just for the price.  If Jay has the time to do that video shootout, then the votes could be more evenly balanced for either.

The Coda #16 may be a similarly superb SOTA amp with a little warmth that competes with any ultra expensive amp.  At $13k without meters or $16K with meters, it is considered cheap in Jay's world, but more expensive than many want to spend.  All these amps, plus Boulder 1161 or 1160 should be considered as serious challengers to the ultra expensive amps.  It is also interesting that viber7 said that the Block in AB mode is more like the Rouge, and preferable to the class A mode for certain music.  That indirectly confirms that if the Rouge is very similar to the Block in AB mode, then the Rouge is of high quality that competes very well with much more expensive amps.  Maybe the Rouge vs Boulder 1161 which is mainly class AB would be a tough fight.  $1700 vs $22,000 or $32,000.

Jay, see if Mike will permit you to bring over the Rouge to compare with his Boulder 1160 or 1161.
viber6
2,448 posts
 
kren0006,
Thanks for your detailed comments.  I do know what you mean.  You also have good ears, so even if you and I have different preferences, I know that in the future I can find your comments about other products useful to me.
More to discover