Which Harbeths?

OP, don’t discount Graham Chartwell’s versions of the BBC monitors; I really like their design principles (e.g. look at their driver selection and philosophy in the VOTU model; great engineering); seeming more modern (less flat earth) to me than Harbeth’s thing, plus still doing a faithful take on the originals.

I’ll definitely give them a couple months at least and see what I think after adjusting to there sound.  I’m open to keeping them but I’m also open to selling them and putting my totems back. I’m not really after something that is maybe slightly better. I decided to try some new speakers thinking my 500$ used rainmakers could be the weak link in the system. I’ve found that’s simply not the case at all.  If I keep the Harbeths it will probably be for the ability to play louder. If I keep the totems it will be for their purity. And just to be clear I do find the Harbeths sound to be beautiful, just not to the extent that the reviews and there reputation led me to expect.  Also any notion that they offer good price to performance is a bit crazy. I honestly feel if any other company tried selling the same speakers at the same prices they would be out of business.  

op

give em a little time, but if they don’t do much for you, sell em off

if you bought at a halfway smart price, there should be takers without you losing much $

new harbeths are indeed expensive, but even so, there are plenty of buyers all over the world

but like any other product in the world, one thing may be loved by many, but still may not be right for some - there are indeed many speakers much more expensive than new harbeths with very happy customers, harbeth owners would say those speakers make their ears bleed

@brylandgoodman,

[please excuse my bad English]
- Give your Harbeth C7es XD plenty of time for the running/breaking in. I suggest to avoid any decision before you spent the whole winter listening to them. Fast A/B comparisons can mislead. Yes, time would downgrade the resell value of the 7’s, but the experience is worth it, imho.

- if you feel more treble energy with the Totem, it is very likely that the cause is that they emphasize energy on the treble (often in order to grab the listener’s attention). Conversely, Harbeth not not emphasize treble, and it is a relief when nearly all the speaker industry do that (here are the measurements of the M30.2 Anniversary, made by John Atkinson: no treble emphasis). My reference is live performance with acoustic, unamplified instruments: I barely can listen to any current hifi speaker at all, as the huge majority of them just sound wrong. Due to the pervasiveness of digital, people have lost the reference with live concerts.


- I totally agree with @jjss49, especially on *that point*

by and large, harbeths present music as an integral whole, many would say other more ’hifi’ speakers let you hear ’into’ the music more -- harbeths, from a bbc design heritage (like classic spendors, grahams, stirlings, etc etc) are trying to *present music as one hears from a mid hall position in an acoustic concert hall*, playing acoustic instruments in an orchestral or chamber group type of setting ... if you have been to a music event like that, you feel the music comes as you as a fairly unified wave of energy, with cymbals, string leading edges, vocals revealing details in a gentle way, there is less sparkle and ’etch’ - similarly bass is smooth energy and has a reverb component, there is not too much ’slam’

I came exactly to the same conclusion, and shared it on the HUG (membership required, so I will copy it, see hereafter):

As a recent Harbeth owner, I realize that all the grievance classically found on other forums (from some members though) against Harbeth speakers (they’re pipe-and-slippers) are just an irrelevant complain over the fact that those speakers just place them in the best seat for the concert, but they are not aware of it."

_______________________
"I think it all is a matter of: listening distance, size of the triangle (listener - leftSpeaker - rightSpeaker), position of that triangle in the room, room acoustics (absorbant, reverb), preferred sonic level, kind of music, and most of all: attendance (or not) at live acoustic instruments, and where do you usually sit in the concert hall: are you a forefront listener? (not always a good choice). Or do you sit (too) far in the back ? (you are unlucky, the best seats were sold out...).

On this latter point (the best seat for a particular concert and hall),
I once had quite a revealing experience:
I attended to a classical music concert (piano & violin) in the concert hall of the Brussels Conservatory with my cousin and her husband. Both are violinists. They studied violin in Brussels, in that Conservatory, and heard lots of colleagues playing in that concert hall, where they played themselves many time in front of the jury. So they know its acoustics by heart, as musicians as well as listeners. We entered the concert hall. There were free places left, and we were free to sit where we wished to. I said them: "please have a seat wherever you wish, I will sit besides with you". I expected them to sit around the first third of the stalls. They both chosed (without the faintest hesitation) a place much further, around the second third of the stall. To me, we sat surprisingly far from the musicians (sure, one of them played piano, and a half-size piano already peaks at 115dB...). I was surprised, as I personally would have sat -as an audiophile/music lover- much closer to the scene (!). I have to admit that I had even some doubt about the pertinence of their choice: will we be able to hear all the nuances of the violin? (please note that I did not write: "will we be able to hear all the noises of the turn of the pages, as with audiophile test discs"...).​
The concert began. It was sheer magic. You could not have dreamed a more perfect balance for our ears (>< the microphones were placed on the scene). Everything was there: all nuances and details (they had used some reflectors in the back of the scene), a perfect subjective balance between details and fusion of the work as a whole. But, no, we could not hear pages being turned...


This leads me to a point: do we expect from our hifi systems to place us at the 5th row of a concert hall, where such noises (which are not part of the music) can be heard? And where there is no music/fusion of instruments yet as we sit ways too close? The 5th row offers just a tsunami of high pressure level sound, and we quickly feel that we sit too near of that "big bang", that sonic explosion, which is not quite music yet (though the conductor has to cope with it) as the "sound fusion" is not complete, and is realized later and further. Some lower circle (balcony) seats also can be great for orchestral music.​​

As a recent Harbeth owner, I realize that all the grievance classically found on other forums (from some members though) against Harbeth speakers (they’re pipe-and-slippers) are just an irrelevant complain over the fact that those speakers just place them in the best seat for the concert, but they are not aware of it. Not at the 5th row for sure (no, you won’t hear the pages being turned, nor the fly ’farting’ at 12’34’’ of track 6 on your preferred audiophile disc of high technical performance, but of -sometimes- poor musicality). Instead, you are seated at the best place, where my cousin Caroline and her husband naturally sat. Caroline is now violin teacher. Fabian, her husband, is 1st violin at the Luxembourg Philharmonic. My speakers let me hear all the music, and all necessary details, not more. It is amazing how, while other, more ’resolving’ speakers can be found (usually more expensive), Harbeths are absolute no-brainers from a music-lover point of view. I love them. They may sound different from my highly musical, resolving-and-unfatiguing system in town (budget is not the same, based on panels, etc), but they’re absolutely lovely.​"

- if you feel more treble energy with the Totem, it is very likely that the cause is that they emphasize energy on the treble (often in order to grab the listener’s attention). Conversely, Harbeth not not emphasize treble, and it is a relief when nearly all the speaker industry do that (here are the measurements of the M30.2 Anniversary, made by John Atkinson: no treble emphasis). My reference is live performance with acoustic, unamplified instruments: I barely can listen to any current hifi speaker at all, as the huge majority of them just sound wrong. Due to the pervasiveness of digital, people have lost the reference with live concerts.

What if your reference to live music isn't unamplified acoustic music; is Harbeth still the best in this case?  i.e. the many other modern HiFi speaker manufacturers are just plain wrong?

Many folks and myself included go to live amplified music events.   I live in the Boston area and go to many concerts in venues like the Orpheum Theatre, Wang Theatre, Berklee Performance Center (amazing place to see a concert by the way...), Paradise Rock club, etc...

For me, part of the experience of a live event like that is the not only the clarity and detail I hear at the live event, but very much the speed, attack, and plain visceral excitement of the show.  No, I don't like to be in the first row, but mid row in the venues I go to with the artists I see still allow me to hear the speed/snap of the snare drum and quick thump of the electric bass.  I'm not talking heavy metal and make your ears bleed shows either, artists as diverse as Nick Cave, Cowboy Junkies, Valerie June, to Cheap Trick, Smashing Pumpkins, etc...   All of these artists seen live still present shows with great impact and detail.

Over the years I've owned a decently diverse set of speakers: big powerful but warmish speakers like the Energy Veritas 2.8, B&W Matrix, two models of the Klipsch Heritage line, a well balanced to maybe a little forward Revel,  a super fast and detailed Magico with beryllium tweeter, and recently demoed both the Harbeth SLH5s and 40.2s (not XD) before choosing Spendors.

I get why folks love the Harbeth sound and the midrange and the many other things they do very well; it is talked about over and over again on these threads.   But, being a person who attends a lot of live amplified shows, I also feel they come up short in others areas compared to other speakers.

One or the other isn't right or wrong, this is all about personal taste and preference.
I just find it sometimes a little frustrating that these threads often seem to imply the non Harbeth way is just plain wrong; either the rest of us can't hear, or we have chosen sub-par speakers because we didn't end up with Harbeth...  

Cheers