Why the hate for mcintosh amps?

@fenmoore12 - logic dictates that in circumstances where a piece of equipment sounds better than another but less money was spent on improving the looks (or adding unnecessary, sound degrading meters) and the cost is lower than an inferior sounding one that looks nicer and costs more, you would take the inferior sounding one (at times).- 

Here is the logic: let's say you set aside a fixed amount of money (or had points to spend and couldn't use any leftover points for anything else) for a new box and the nicer looking one of the two under consideration costs exactly that amount of $$ or points and the better sounding one costs a little less. I am assuming that you want to maximize the value of the dollars that you spend. If you don't buy the nicer looking one, you will leave money or points on the table, whereas a person only concerned with the SQ (assuming as I mentioned in a previous post, it is not hideous and disallowed by the boss in her den) will buy the less expensive one because it sounds better.

This is theoretical of course, but demonstrates the error of an audiophile putting beauty ahead (or a major consideration in relation to) of SQ.

Now, I have no problem with this if that is important to you, which is why I asked if you are an interior designer. I would expect them to care very much about the looks, perhaps even beyond the SQ a piece of equipment delivers. I am sure that those people kept B&O afloat for a while and is a major contributor to MacIntosh's undisputed success and popularity.

People's Mendoza line for acceptance of looks varies from person to person, but IMHO, it should be a yes or no proposition, and if it meets or exceeds that line, the only criteria of a serious audiophile for a piece of equipment is SQ.

Now, I have no problem with this if that is important to you, which is why I asked if you are an interior designer. I would expect them to care very much about the looks, perhaps even beyond the SQ a piece of equipment delivers. I am sure that those people kept B&O afloat for a while and is a major contributor to MacIntosh’s undisputed success and popularity.

People’s Mendoza line for acceptance of looks varies from person to person, but IMHO, it should be a yes or no proposition, and if it meets or exceeds that line, the only criteria of a serious audiophile for a piece of equipment is SQ.

@sokogear There are so many holes in your 'logic' it is hard to know where (or if) to begin. But here goes..

Why would aesthetics not matter? Name one manufacturer that does not care and invest in this aspect of their product, electronics or otherwise.

Calling our interior designers as the only ones who care about aesthetics is absurd. Most everyone cares about visual appeal.

B&O and Mac are in two different leagues. Enough said there.

Mendoza line refers to a baseball analogy. Perhaps you meant Maginot line.

And as to the blue meters.They have no impact on sound quality and you can always turn them off. At least on my C2300 you can.

@jerryrocks- Mendoza line is used as a reference to a cut off point. Mario Mendoza hit about .200 which got referenced as a minimum average for a major league hitter. I use it as a minimum quality of the looks of a piece of equipment. If it passes, then the differentiating factor is SQ.

Of course equipment manufacturers invest in the looks of their gear, but only the MacIntoshes and the like expect it to be a differentiating factor.

I just mentioned interior designers as an extreme example, I would think everyone has their own Mendoza line of visual appeal and I hope audiophiles select the best value of SQ and don’t let nice aesthetics overtake something of better SQ/value for the dollar.

The biggest value hit recipient would be a MacIntosh buyer who keeps the meters off. Like a previous poster said, why not have it as an option and the deleters save a few bucks?

Anything that measures something and is somehow attached to it impacts its performance in theory. Whether it is audible or not is debatable.

Because,  McI is PP amp with sharp and metal sound and big power, that you never will use. Too much money for good vision and big power. Better try to listen Single Ended amp and you will sense the difference.

This discussion seems to quickly lose rational basis, so going back to the original question, "why don't people like McIntosh?", some rational reasons not to like it are as follows:

1) Value - at the surface, it is expensive compared to most similar products with similar specs.
2) Looks - if you don't like the McIntosh look, you don't like it - what is there to debate here?
3) Sound Quality - again - this is a matter of personal taste.  If you don't like the way it sounds, why would you buy it?
4) Build Quality - the quality of the components, how those components are put together, and the QA/QC that ensures the consistency of what was intended by the designers vs. what ends-up in the box you buy.  In my recent experience, McIntosh is not as good at this as they once were in this regard.

Conversely, some reasons to like it:
1) Value - when you consider the substantial resale value (should you decide to upgrade within McIntosh or try something else later) it is typically a better "investment" than most brands.
2) Looks - see above - my own polling on this over the years has shown that most think it looks very cool, retro, and "pro" - males and females both.  This criteria should be irrelevant, but most of us are at least partially moved by this element.
3) Sound Quality - this is pure personal preference - do not make any significant audio purchase without listening for yourself, and try to do so in an environment that mimics your home listening room to the greatest extent possible.  That said, in my experience, at least as many people like the sound of McIntosh as dislike it.
4) Build Quality - while it may not be what it once was, it is still very good for the most part - especially once you are in the stainless steel chassis line of products.

I hope this helps.  There is no "fatal-flaw" in buying McIntosh, unless you listen to it, don't like the sound, and then buy it anyway.  Conversely, if you like the sound, there are few brands of equipment that have enjoyed lasting value and performance over the decades the way McIntosh has.