B&W Matrix 801 Series II

They've certainly have stood the test of time, and they're the most well known high end speaker from the 80s. But, as others said, you need a lot of power, highest quality cables (bi wire,) high quality preamp and sources, bass alignment filter, and good stands. However, if you have carpet on concrete floor, listening to them with just the castors is not bad at all, imo.

First, realize that you will get some polarizing answers on this site, as there are some who dislike the B&W sound.

You should check out the review of this exact model at the Stereophile website : http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/506/index.html. Note the follow up with the graphs. There is also another article, where they asked John Bowers (the B of B&W)how he tested his studio monitors for accuracy. He replied that he used panels of musicians, recorded cuts, then they listened to playbacks of the recordings on the speakers. They then tweaked the speakers based on feedback from the musicians.

IMHO,you would be hard pressed to find a full range brand new pair at this price & quality.

There are some who say that they do not image & soundstage realistically - not true. They will reproduce what is on the recording. If you know someone who has the Decca/London AIDA w/ Karajan (CD or LP), & if you look at the photos of recording session of Triumphal march session, you can clearly hear the precise placement of the various singers, choirs, stage band, etc. in both L-R and front to back positions. The vocals are precise in space, properly sized, not overly large in the soundstage.

Some say they cannot play rock or Jazz well. Nonsense. Listen to Coltrane's Crescent album or Tal Wilkenfeld's Transformation CD, or Zep's Achilles Last Stand (Presence). The bass lines go deep, are punchy, but you can still delineate the actual notes, plus the kick drums clearly punch through electric bass.

They are the monitors used by most classical labels (Universal Music Group, Pentatone), Abbey Road, Skywalker Sound. Epica (Dutch Symphonic Metal Band ) albums were monitored using I believe BW Nautilus 802's (They can be seen on one of the DVD documentaries that came w/ the album).

All this being said, there are several caveats.
They will not editorialize the sound. So many rock & pop recordings will sound as bad as they truly are (Van Halen albums come to mind). That's a personal decision. I want to hear what is there. On the MFSL CD reissue of Ronstadt's Prisoner in Disguise ,she is truly in the room w/ you/ but the speaker also reveals that the drums were recorded in a tiny control space (or miked to closely). Check out the SACD of Shelby Lynne's Just A Little Lovin' for a "you are there" experience.

They will reveal what is upstream, so if you use less than stellar front end equipment, they will show it. Don't even think about using a receiver to drive them. These babies are rather inefficient (87 db), and can take up to 600W. I'd recommend at least 150 : 200-250 would be better. You also want an amp that can comfortably drive speaker impedances of 4 Ohms. They also need to be properly placed w/in the room.

It's true that the weak link of this speaker is the crossover. I've upgraded mine. You also do need the bass alignment filter, which did not always come with the original purchase. Some people say it muddies the sound, but I prefer to use it. I've also upgraded this to an aftermarket product. That being said, I could happily live w/ the speaker stock.

You should check the surrounds on the drivers, especially the woofer units. If the owner took proper care, they should NOT be deteriorated. The drive units are no longer available from B&W. The speakers really need to be on dedicated stands to reach their potential (Sound Anchors). The speakers came with metal spikes that screwed into the bottom. You should also check that the bottom cover is not cracked. This is where the crossover is. The cover itself is rather flimsy.

I bought mine in 1989. When the Signature 800 came out in the early 2000's for the then outrageous amt. of $20K, I was seriously thinking about upgrading, but was talked out of it by a local dealer, who thought that the cost did not justify the increase in performance.

Hope this helps.

Elee, I do agree with the comments in your post as I have listened to 801’s many times , and owned a pair of Matrix 802’s some years ago.

My post is based on an experience I had while working at a B&W dealer. Sold a customer some B&W’s, not 801’s, but a lesser model that had a sensitivity of 88-90db, with quality electronics. Then he started having trouble with blown tweeters, so we repaired, increased power to maximum for the speaker, and he still had problems. So I went to his home and discovered he was doing exactly what Wemfan described, playing his guitar as he played the system. I then swapped the B&W speakers for some Klipsch towers with a much higher sensitivity. He was happy with the change because the system did what he wanted it to do, and never had another problem.

I’m not saying anything bad about the 801’s, I just think they are the wrong speaker for how Wemfan would try to use them.

After reading all of the posts I am leaning toward seeing if I can borrow them for a test drive depending on what shape the speakers are in (thanks CT0517). I do have a Parasound A31 3 channel amp that is 250 watts @8ohm. I just got it and haven't heard it yet. Should that amp be a good match for the B&Ws? I bought the Parasound for a theater bedroom system i am working on. I don't need this system to be loud. I guess I am looking for a smoother sound compared to the Khorn system. Something clear and musical. Really, I don't know how to describe it but something in a different direction from the MAC/Khorn system.

Also, you guys mentioned getting them up high. How high? The floor is hardwood. Elee you mentioned you upgraded the crossover. How do you go about that and what are the symptoms that a crossover needs upgrading? can I still acquire a Bass Alignment Filter or are they hard to come by?

All of the opinions are very helpful. Thanks...

Hi Wemfan

another long post - sorry - as I have my coffee and the caffeine kicks in. :^(

I am leaning toward seeing if I can borrow them for a test drive

Right on - there is no better way - in your own room with your own equipment.

I do have a Parasound A31 3 channel amp that is 250 watts @8ohm.

It will work to try out the speakers. I have not heard that amp.
But remember you are asking this question on the speaker forum
You will get audiophile 2 channel nut jobs -myself included - answering.
If you ask this question on the Home Theater forum you would probably get a different response

So take this with a grain of salt.

The A31, like all Halo-branded amplifiers, is a high-bias Class A-AB amplifier, meaning the first few watts - in this case seven - are delivered in pure Class A fashion before switching over to AB status.

taken from here.

http://hometheaterreview.com/parasound-a31-three-channel-power-amplifier/

In comparison my old Classe CA300 two channel amp stayed in class A for 30 watts.
So this Parasound was designed for Home Theater - again my opinion.
The 801's are revealing and will let you know when the amp is in A/B.

I am looking for a smoother sound compared to the Khorn system. Something clear and musical

Are you looking for an addictive midrange combined with liquid and shimmering highs ?

If SS you need to stay with Class A as long as possible. The 801's are just too revealing.

Definitely try your McIntosh set at 4 ohms sitting closer.

Also not to get ahead of ourselves but your parasound has gain controls.

I would try hooking it up to the woofers and hooking your McIntosh on the mids and tweeters.
Adjusting the parasound gain to where you have your preferred tonal balance. bass/mid/highs.
But this "IS" getting ahead of ourselves.......

Also, you guys mentioned getting them up high. How high?

I would listen to them on their castors/spikes first - then try them higher later.
The Sound Anchor stands are very expensive.

Some more facts you should be aware of :
Two matrix versions of 801's were made s2 and s3.
There are differences.

S3 used a different crossover than s2 - less component count.
Better isolated mid and hf boards.
Bass inductors with an iron dust core .
Rotating midrange – tweeter head assembly was permanently connected. (from 3 to 4 pin delivering separate ground signals to midrange and tweeter)
Magnetic fluid cooling of the tweeter (like the 800 matrix) - the reason the apoc protection eliminated (circuits needed for this were also removed)

imo - the S2 is great candidate for a crossover upgrade.
I have a couple of friends that have done this. Thread poster Elee has also done this with his S2.
The S3 is not as great a candidate for the reasons above. This is a personal call.
I came real close to doing the upgrade with Northcreek.
I had a number of direct discussions with B&W senior people - they convinced me not to do it with the S3.
this included identifying the listed differences between them. Its a $2500 cost to do if I recall.

So botomline all this makes the stock factory 801 S3 more desirable than the Stock factory 801 S2.
prices reflect this.


fwiw -
I drove 10 hours one way to pick up my S3 in '94. And returned same day.
The 801's always seem to become available locally when you are not looking for them.
Funny how this works.
So local 801's you can pick up are rare.

Either way 801 S2 or 801 S3 stock - you can buy and try and sell for same or more money if it doesn't work out.
What other speaker can claim this - I'd like to know brand/model names.
Its a win -win situation for everything except your back to carry the damn things.

I see alot of value $$$ just in the matrix cabinetry on its own - without considering the electronics and drivers.
I also own B&W DM70's - Electrostat hybrids from the 70's.
Their cabinet construction still to today hasn't degraded. I appreciate quality like this.

Wemfan - the B&W filter/equalizer comes up occasionally here and on Ebay, or kijiji, etc...
Usually around $150 - 250 from what I have seen. I own Krell, Maughan and B&W versions.

You can read more about them here.

http://kenrockwell.com/audio/b-w/800-series-bass-alignment-filter.htm

Tls49
My post is based on an experience I had while working at a B&W dealer. Sold a customer some B&W’s, not 801’s, but a lesser model that had a sensitivity of 88-90db, with quality electronics. Then he started having trouble with blown tweeters, so we repaired, increased power to maximum for the speaker, and he still had problems.

Hi Tls49 - am curious. Which speakers with which amps ?

Cheers