Tube dampener questions


I bought some tube dampeners and on when I put them on the tubes on the amp and DAC it seemed to suck the life out of the sound so I removed them.

Doing some tube rolling and while the new tubes sounded good the vocals were disconnected somehow.  They seemed to distort during dynamics so I put a dampener on the input tube and it seemed to help at the cost of a little bit of life.

What is the correct way to use tube dampeners?
As vibration control are they like a guitar string and where they rest on the tube changes the frequency of the vibration?

Several burns later I think I got it right but I'm sure someone out there knows how to do this correctly.
128x128danager
Do you know why tubes are called valves? A plate on one side has a whole lot of electrons that are attracted to a plate on the other side. The signal we want to amplify is used to control another element in between that controls the flow of electrons. This is the "valve", and the small controlling signal compared to the large amount of current it controls is what produces the amplification.

Real basic stuff, which if you keep it all in mind then it is easy to understand what why vibration control affects tubes and why tube dampers suck the life out of the music.  

In the process of electrons flowing across the tube all the different elements of the tube are vibrating. Always. Everything is. Not just the glass on the outside but the plates and pins and the amp or whatever the tube is plugged into. 

All these parts, the glass, metal, all of it, each and every one has its own individual harmonic resonances. Just like a cantilever, speaker driver, anything you care to name. When they vibrate this changes the physical distance between tube elements, which has the effect of changing timing and frequency.

Think of Doppler. The car horn that is higher pitch moving towards you shifts lower when it is going away. Tube plates vibrating are sometimes moving towards each other shifting the sound higher, sometimes moving apart shifting it lower. This can happen randomly, in which case the tube will probably sound pretty good. Or the two sides can have resonant modes where the resonance of one aggravates or accentuates the other. This whole process is dynamic and can change with the frequency of the music signal. Or this same process might happen in a way that actually sounds pretty good. There is a lot of black magic going on in a tube.

What happens when you move the damper up and down the tube, you are putting mass and damping in different locations and this is changing the harmonic resonance characteristics of the whole tube system- not just the glass but all the stuff inside. Also since the tube is connected to the amp you are to an extent damping that as well. But just in the same way Pods under a component have more effect than under the rack, dampers on the tube affect the tube itself more than the amp. But make no mistake, it all goes together.

Dampers are known to suck life and dynamics, which is why hardly anyone uses them with anything any more. Springs and isolation are by far more effective, just hard to implement with tubes. Sometimes though a particular tube may have a really glaring hot spot resonance so bad it is worth the hit to everything else to tame it with a damper. This all perfectly explains what you did and heard.

Also explains why some find dampers worthwhile. It all depends on the situation and the listener. By and large though you will be better off to treat the problem at the source by isolating the whole component on springs. 
I've been through much tube equipment over the years, in probably 90% of cases no damper preferred. The other 10%, only Herbie's high temp dampers, the ones with metal ring and tiny little o rings wrapped around a white colored plastic piece, work for me. The small contact area of these sometimes provides just the right amount control over a bit of sibilance or glare.

For once I find myself disagreeing with @Millercarbon: on small signal and rectifier tubes, rather than 'sucking out the life' good tube dampeners stop tubes from ringing and thereby creating a zing or liveliness that is patently false. A corrolary effect of the dampeners is a 'thinning' of upper bass, contributing to a more transparent image. At least this applies to my Svetlana Winged-C 6L6GC and WE435a tubes in the Wavac EC300b; that said I'll be the first to agree that it all depends on individual circumstances.

I agree with @atmashere's comments on output tubes.

I then purchased a 1960s d getter tube input/driver tube and the tube dampener became a moot point.  The new tube sounded better and I don't feel the need to apply a dampener.  Was I really hearing microphonics?  I don't know but that tube is back in the drawer.

@danager Did you try the damper on the new tube? And yes, you were really hearing microphonics- that's a property of all tubes. Some are inherently more microphonic than others, for example 6DJ8s (and 6922s) are more microphonic than 12AT7s, even though the latter have more gain. This is simply becuase the 12A** series is designed for audio, while the 6DJ8 is designed for instrumentation and video service.