Finally Learned: Subs serve much larger role than adding more low bass
I sold my older powered sub a while back. reasons-
1. It did not integrate well.
2. I was pretty satisfied with my 2 speakers bass output.
3. Was big, heavy and ugly.
After traveling around the counrty and listening to home systems put together by people who know their way around the industry I realized they all have something I did not. A well integrated bass array.
So what does a bass array add to a 2.0 system?
This is where words fail but I will try:
-Increased Involvement in the listening experience
-More enjoayble sound stage
So if you are like I was, a sub denier, I suggest you try one small
sub, as I did, and see what you experience. My $500 REL T5x experience
did it for me. Now I will buy a second one.
Added 2 REL S/5 SHO with their longbow wireless to Maggie 3.7i's. I don't have to worry about placement except for the AC power, no speaker wires to the subs. Opens up the soundstage, very clean and detailed bass. The wireless SMPS's are noisy and I had to take them off the dedicated lines as they were injecting a lot of noise. Made much worse by upgrading to iFi Power X, now I know why iFi sells DC power purifiers. |
@desktopguy I use Vandersteen 4As in my third system and the provision for low bass goes further with them than with most speakers - a separate crossover to control volume of low bass, a couple of high quality capacitors to roll the bass off from the mid/.high drivers and separate amplification - once properly set up it does work very well. Not many of those speakers out there and a great bargain today if you can find them. |
Correct on all points. I didn’t want to try to explain that stuff, which gets tricky. In conversation with Richard Vandersteen, he admitted that the electronic crossover, while sonically ideal for the subs, was less than ideal for the mid & upper drivers. I asked if he could mod mine to make it sound better, and he said, "It makes no sense for me to drop everything to mod a crossover, which would cost a lot to do anyway." I liked the direct way the man spoke... If I still had the 4s, I would get a high-quality aftermarket crossover by Marchand electronics and purchase 6 dB/octave slope frequency boards set at 80 Hz, high pass and low pass. That would be perfect. I have a different Marchand crossover in my desktop system (this model has variable frequency crossovers and uses 24 dB/octave slopes), and I can tell you it's very transparent. Anyway, that’s the way I think of it now. Back in the ’80s I ran my 4s exactly as you describe and was in love with that sound...all aspects of it were ideal for me. |
I think Richard was on the right track - roll the bass off for the mids and highs, which won't be affected by frequencies they can't reproduce well anyway, and use the electronic unit simply to adjust gain on the bass frequencies to suit the output of the mids and highs. Nice to hear of other 4 or 4A owners - pretty thin on the ground today. I've owned mine for many years and they are just too good to sell despite my having two other systems more current and also giving excellent sound. My Vandersteen system is over top 1990s vintage - amplified by a pair of PSE Studio IV monos on the bass, and twin mono Classe DR-3 VHC (at around 110 lbs each), biwired for mids and highs (with Classe DR7 preamp and Classe DAC1 D/A). A 'high Classé system ;-) |
@wspohn Wow, cool. The model 4 are getting long in the tooth and i believe no replacement drivers available. RV still use the same basic architecture of powered bass in the sub 3 and Quattro and up floor standers…because as noted it works ! Newer models include 11 bands of EQ below 120 hz. You should join us over on the Vandy owners forum…pictures of the model 4 would be a cool hit there… Best to you Jim |
