How do you know when a stereo sounds good?

@cindyment 

The arguments are meant to first divide the groups and then once divided to isolate the target group.

Yes, I think divided only by sleight of hand and in my opinion by the use of some very deliberate and garbled misrepresentations that are abundantly transparent in their intent. I disagree that they are veiled, but I guess I'm just at the 6th standard deviation of cynical.

That this succeeds in many good and honest folk - the target group - being tricked is tremendously "clever" but entirely unethical.

When other systems/equipment are just different and I still find my own so pleasing and not wanting for more.

@noske 

@khughes The twisting of words by folk who eschew measurements sometimes makes my head hurt.

Since you only quoted/referred to me in that response, I certainly hope you are not putting me in the "eschews measurements" bucket? 

@mahgister 

Why people want to reduce everything to a binary distinction?

It's not really everyone who does that..

measurements are tools and necessary even for experiments...

There is a large cadre, however, that adamantly denies this simple reality. They self segregate, no need at all for me to do it for them.

But in audio our sujective experience is also primary...

Whether this is true or not depends on how you're defining "primary".  If, for example, I give you 2 identical power cords, one with a red plug, one with a blue plug, and your subjective impression is that the red plug is clearly better as it sounds more <insert audiophilic mumbo jumbo> than the black one. Now, that may in fact be true, but it's not due to the change in *auditory* stimuli reaching your body.  Should you rely on that subjective evaluation even when I tell you that the black plug cord is $10 and the red plug cord is $12K? I sure wouldn't.

As I replied earlier to @cindyment, in slightly different terms, correlation of measurements, a priori, to preference or enjoyment is not trivial, if possible at all. But measurement of *difference* is trivial IMO. So, if there's no scientifically known mechanism of action for A (latest floobie dust product) to act differently than B, in situ, and you cannot measure a difference between them in any relevant attribute or parameter, listening for a difference is folly.

Certainly any product can be designed to sound different, and do so, whether active or passive device.Those differences are easily measured as well. Because... if you don't know what to measure, or how to measure it (a couple of favorite disingenuous locutions favored in the snake oil world), however did you *design* it in the first place?

When I spoke about "subjective experience being primary" like measurements are in acoustic and in engineering, i refered ALSO to the fundamental criteria in acoustic: the human perception of timbre..

If people were educated by ACOUSTICIAN they will not buy 10,000 bucks cable they will treat and CONTROL their room...It is evident for me that each cable is different BUT IT IS SECONDARY completely compared to other impactful necessary controls: mechanical, electrical and especially acoustical...

I fine tuned MECHANICALLY my Helmholtz resonators grid guided by my timbre perception...Like some fine tune a piano,,,,

It is not objective . It is not perfect. It is a relation between my particular room with his particular zone pressures grid distribution, modifiable at will, in relation to EACH of my ears, which are not only different from one another but different from all others ears...

i dont bought audio tweaks... I created mine....Nobody sold my mechanical equalizer, i designed it with discarded junk...If some mouth laugh about that junks my own ears smile anyway....

Learning basic acoustic help me to spare my money...And spare me to enter into these stupid "objectivist" /subjectivist" childish and unscientific completely and this by the 2 sides which each one reject reason and acoustic or psycho-acoustic...

If measurements are ONLY necessary tools,his perception of timbre is the essential tool of any acoustician...Then negating one or the other, without understanding their complementary relation is insane when people argue without listening the other sides...

All these debates AGAINST or FOR cables or other tweaks are beside the point....There is subjective partiality to sell products on one side or there is people on the other side who vouch that we can know how a dac would sound just by reading a measurement chart...I am not interested by these 2 groups....

I am not a genius.... But i am not stupid either....

I am an audiophile and lover of music who designed his own audio controls: mechanical,electrical, and acoustical...It is not perfect at all... But it is spectacular and satisfying at NO COST...

I am out of these debates where people sometimes defend an agenda more than truth in the two sides...

There is debates more important now in the world....

@mahgister

Why people want to reduce everything to a binary distinction?

It’s not really everyone who does that..

measurements are tools and necessary even for experiments...

There is a large cadre, however, that adamantly denies this simple reality. They self segregate, no need at all for me to do it for them.

But in audio our sujective experience is also primary...

Whether this is true or not depends on how you’re defining "primary". If, for example, I give you 2 identical power cords, one with a red plug, one with a blue plug, and your subjective impression is that the red plug is clearly better as it sounds more <insert audiophilic mumbo jumbo> than the black one. Now, that may in fact be true, but it’s not due to the change in *auditory* stimuli reaching your body. Should you rely on that subjective evaluation even when I tell you that the black plug cord is $10 and the red plug cord is $12K? I sure wouldn’t.