''Óriginal parts'', ''identity '' and ''retip'' conundrum

''Meaning'' and ''reference''.

One need to understand an sentence or statement to grasp  its

meaning. But the so called ''reality'' is not linguistic . That is why 

one also speaks about ''extra -linguistic reality''. The so called

''correspondence with reality''  is needed for an statement to be true,

Well the assumptions or assertions about ''original parts''  are

based on meaning but not on reality. The reality is that all styli and

cantilevers are not produced by manufacturer but by, say, two

Japanese Jewel companies. So all manufacturer as well retippers

get those from the same source. The expression ''original'' may have

''emotive meaning'' but this meaning does not correspond with

reality. Besides ''original parts'' presuppose identification which is

not linguistic but ''realistic'' in the empirical  sense. In this sense the

expression ''original''  make no sense, 

As the subject is to be focused on Styli, Cantilevers and Original, the proposal that a Styli and Cantilever assembly is a product from a limited number of Companies that are considered being a Supplier of the parts for a Manufacturers Supply Chain in the procurement of the overall items to be assembled, does seem to have a relevance in todays Manufacture for a Cartridge, even though it is known there are Cartridge Manufacture Companies and 'Retip' Services that as apart of a present Production or Refurbishment Service, offer a Bespoke Styli >Cantilever assembly that is not an assembly produced by the limited number of Companies that are being referred to.

For the Original Element, the further back in time one will go to review the variations across the Cartridge Models that were offered in a Market Place, where a much larger range of options were to be encountered. 

There will be many descriptions supplied by the Manufacturer that will suggest that there is a Bespoke Part to be found in a particular Cartridge, and a part that was most likely produced by a specialist with access to the materials selected or even a in house assembly of the selected parts.

Then there is the other consideration where a design is evolving and Parts are being included and deselected , either on paper or after thorough assessment through demonstrations and testing.

Parts used at the design stages and deselected, would still warrant a status of a Original Part, but not the part selected for the model to be the,  'Piggy, that went to market'.

Is it not possible that when a challenge is made by a owner of a quite old model of Cartridge, where there is a rejection of the idea of using a Third Party 'retip' Service,

The challenge is due to the idea the 'retip' Service is going to use parts that are not related to the Cartridge Parts used in the era of production, and the most likely place to acquire these parts is with the original manufacturer, or at the least get a sympathetic service supplied from the Manufacturer that is considering the Cartridges age and uniqueness due to the Vintage.

From experience of taking the time to read the terms of the Service offered by a Manufacturer for their refurbishment service, bear in mind I have not read all Manufacturer's terms, I will say once more the used word 'equivalent' is the get out of jail card.

There is not going to be a Cartridge produced that is a match in parts used to the model being refurbished, there is going to be parts used for the refurbishment, that are assessed, hopefully by an adept technician to be an 'equivalent' part. There will be a function parity only.  In a 'Nutshell' one more Bespoke Refurbishment is produced of a Cartridge.

This Bespoke Refurbishment from a Manufacturer or from a 'retip' Service if both carried out by adept technicians will most likely have very closely match similarities as the modern supply chains are ubiquitous in their presence and do not seem to be an exclusive entity, hence the offered parts end up being available to numerous parties.

@nandric  good to see you back, with your learned descriptions and following mind boggle to boot.              

Dear pindac, I assume you are familiar with the saying about ''rules

and exceptions''. I ''covered'' the case of retippers and their ''possible''

stock of not anymore produced styli (Geiger, VDH, etc.). There is

no evidence that manufacturer also keep ''old styli'' in their stock.

General statements, so to speak, don't cover all possible cases.

My intention was to dismiss prejudice about retips. Think of new styli

in comparison with, say, elliptical kind. My experience is that new styli

are much better. Besides ''old kind'' can be worn out. 

@nandric
>The reality is that all styli and cantilevers are not produced by manufacturer but by, say, two Japanese Jewel companies.

This is more likely to be true for styli, less so for cantilevers and the other components that comprise the cantilever assembly. In my earlier post on this thread (dated 12-24-2021), I listed multiple examples of how components can be (and are) provided to Namiki / Ogura by cartridge manufacturers. Namiki / Ogura do not have the right to resell components or materials provided to them by a cartridge manufacturer (or designed by a cartridge manufacturer) unless there is a written agreement that allows this.

To add to the previous examples, when there was a shortage of boron a few years ago, some companies who depended completely on the two Japanese Jewel companies for supplies of boron were forced to cease production of certain products <https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/jico-sas-is-currently-out-of-production.500921/>. The two Japanese Jewel companies did not have boron production facilities, and were therefore incapable of replenishing their inventories unless they could first find alternative material suppliers (which took time).

However other companies, including Lyra, possessed their own inventory of boron, and were able to supply the two Japanese Jewel companies with cantilever materials so that production remained unaffected.

Although the angle at which the stylus is mounted to the cantilever does not depend on the cartridge manufacturer supplying key components to Namiki / Ogura, it should be tailored to the rake angle that the cantilever will assume relative to the LP, so that the dynamic SRA (with VTF applied, and playing an LP) becomes 90º.

For example, if the target cantilever rake angle is 20º, the stylus-to-cantilever angle should be 70º; a 21º cantilever rake angle requires a stylus-to-cantilever angle of 69º, a 22º cantilever rake angle requires a stylus-to-cantilever angle of 68º, a 23º cantilever rake angle requires a stylus-to-cantilever angle of 67º, etc. IOW, the stylus mounting angle plus the cantilever rake angle should always sum to 90º.

Although many cartridges have cantilever rake angles in the vicinity of 20º~25º, there are cartridges with cantilever rake angles of 28º (Ortofon) or 30º (Avid). Fitting a stylus mounted for use with a 20º cantilever rake angle in a cartridge designed for a 30º cantilever rake angle will cause a 10º SRA error.

This is why cartridge manufacturers typically specify customized stylus mounting angles to suit the body or cantilever rake angles of a given cartridge design.

That said, it is possible for a retipper to accomplish much the same thing - by either stocking a full range of cantilever angles (60º:30º, 61º:29º, 62º:28º, 63º:27º, 64º:26º, 65º:25º, 66º:24º, 67º:23º, 68º:22º, 69º:21º, 70º:20º, and this is ignoring vintage cartridge models which may have had cantilever rake angles of around 15º), or individually installing each stylus onto its cantilever once the recipient cartridge is in hand, so that the final, dynamic SRA becomes 90º.

Regarding rebuilds vs. retips, let me first state that different manufacturers (especially those whose native tongue is not English) may use the same words to mean different things. In fact, some companies may use the terms 'rebuild' and 'retip' interchangeably.

Personally, I consider 'retips' as meaning replacements of the stylus (and cantilever, if it is required), only. These are mostly performed by non-original retippers, since the original manufacturer is likely to prefer a full rebuild (reasons and explanations given below).

After a cartridge is played for hundreds or thousands of hours, more than just the stylus or cantilever are likely to become worn, bent or broken. Suspension wires are prone to take on a permanent set, dampers frequently lose resilience or harden, joint-pipes can bend or corrode, coil wires can short out or break open, signal output pins can become bent or twisted so that they spin freely, magnets can lose strength, screwhole threads can become stripped, polepieces can corrode or crack, anodizing and plating can come off cartridge bodies, and so on.

A rebuild is when the original manufacturer performs a 100% replacement of all components that are likely to see any wear or degradation. Rebuilds are what manufacturers prefer, since the cartridge will be returned to as-new, perfectly functioning condition. And since it takes longer to tear down a cartridge and send out all of the pieces for deep cleaning / rewinding / replating, often the manufacturer will replace the used cartridge with a brand-new one.

Rebuilds also give the manufacturer a chance to incorporate any improvements which may have been developed after the recipient cartridge was produced - for instance when Lyra made a revised 'i' spec Titan, any Titan that was returned to us for a rebuild was automatically upgraded to the 'i' spec (unless the owner specifically requested otherwise).
We are following the same policy today with the Lambda spec Atlas and Etna - any Atlas or Etna returned to us for a rebuild will be upgraded to the Lambda spec, unless the owner specifies against the conversion.

@pindac regarding 'equivalent parts', again I cannot speak for other manufacturers, but Lyra can perform 100% authentic rebuilds for any Lyra-branded cartridge that was made from around the year 2000 and later. No equivalent parts involved or needed.

For earlier models that used 'Ceralloy' cantilevers, although we originally bought kilograms of the metal, we either have exhausted our inventory or are very close to running out.
My opinion is that a manufacturer should acquire at least enough inventory of exotic non-standard materials or key components to support servicing for at least 10 years, preferably longer. The exception would be if the product was specifically offered as a limited-production run, where it was understood by both manufacturer and buyer that as supplies of key materials / components were depleted, production would cease. Such cases are quite rare.

hope this helps