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Underpowered?

Hi guys.  Newbie here asking for advice. 

I recently purchased a pair of B&W 702 Signature (8Ω, 30-300W, 90 dB) to replace my old faithful 683s (8Ω, 20-200W, 90 dB).  I am running them with a McIntosh MA252 (100W into 8Ω, 160W into 4Ω).  I purchased them thinking they would complete my end-game system.  However, my excitement turned into disappointment when I realized the lows were somewhat lacking.  For all their faults, the 683s had a great dynamic low kick (no sub) that I was looking to take one step further.  Unsurprisingly, the highs and mids on the 702s were indeed more detailed and separation was clearer, but I couldn't get over the uninspiring lows.  I found myself listening at higher volumes chasing for that bass oomph.  Neither playing with the EQ at the source nor the amp was satisfactory.  So, I did the research that perhaps I should've done before purchasing the 702s and found out they are quite power hungry despite the specs being similar to the 683s.  I emailed B&W and McIntosh and they agreed the amp is probably underpowered for the 702s.  B&W described the sound of an underpowered speaker as one lacking low response and details, which is spot on. McIntosh suggested the MA352 (200W into 8Ω, 320W into 4Ω).

Of note, I love the MA252 and really wish there was a way to make this work.  I don't need a DAC/streamer/etc so I'm happy to put all my money on better sound vs tech features.  But I also think the speakers sound amazing even when somewhat underpowered and I'm considering upgrading to a MA352, Michi X3, Hegel 390.  Another option could be to get a sub? But I feel that would defeat the purpose of having a 3way standing speaker and then I might as well get a pair of bookshelf speakers (805 D4s, LS50 metas?).

So what do you guys think? Is it normal for a speaker that's rated 30-300W to be underpowered with a 100W amp?? What would you do:

  1. Sell the 702s and look for a better match for my MA252?

  2. Upgrade the MA252 (MA352? Michi X3? NAD 33?)?

  3. Get a subwoofer?

I would really appreciate your thoughts/advice!

dridel
pabs85
53 posts
 

@james633 totally agree about his reviews, you just have to look at how he raves about the Auralic Altair G1 as the best streamer available which is a paid review. Nothing against Auralic, I own the ARIES G2.1 and love it, but the minute you put a review out like that as paid, it undermines everything else.

@dridel from your further comments it does sound like there might be a synergy issue here if the highs are unbearable, however B&W are known for having a bright treble (from the many reviews and conversations with dealers) which will become more apparent higher up the chain as it becomes more resolving. However it is worth trying the free stuff first before changing gear. You may also want to hang duvets and get more soft furnishings in your room if it’s got a lot of bare walls at the moment to see if it’s the reflections that are emphasising the treble. Just worth trying all the easy free stuff first before buying more and becoming disillusioned if it doesn’t fix it, as the sound you are after is out there!

holmz's avatar
holmz
2,328 posts
 

@dridel

Neither playing with the EQ at the source nor the amp was satisfactory.

What sort of EQ options did you have at the source and at the amp?
 

How about some measurement like an REW graph of the left and then the right channel? (And finally both)

That would answer a lot of questions, including @imhififan woofer issue in the Theils.

There is no easy way to make a rational decision on multi k$ changes to fix the problem, without first having some factual way to understand what is (or maybe) the problem.

bubbagump
8 posts
 

1. Have they had a sufficient break-in period???  2. As someone else suggested, you may want to place an ad here or on Craigslist to see if someone has a higher-powered quality amp who wishes to audition the 702's before pulling the trigger on them.   Not a big fan of subs for 2 channel towers, prefer them with HT.  A $7500 pair of towers shouldn't require a sub-woofer if sufficiently powered and broken in, unless in a huge room...

steve59's avatar
steve59
1,789 posts
 

 second amp to drive the woofers. use the pre outs to a mac amp thats rated with 50% more power than the current amp and slave it to the woofers.

ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 

If you have played with placement and still aren’t happy, maybe it’s time to move the speakers. Go audition others with your amp. 100w that can double into 4ohms is plenty powerful for most speakers in a reasonable room. The Mac gear isn’t my favorite, but it’s a premium amp that does very listen wrong (for the price I just like some other gear better in My system). I have friends who own Vandersteen’s and Wilson’s who love Mac with it. I’ve never heard that amp sound bad,  nor unpowered ever. 
 

adding a sub just adds more to the equation. In the right situation they can be awesome, but in you case why throw more money if you are chasing your tail to get  better bass from a pair of speakers. Multiple ways to fix something that shouldn’t need fixing.  Good luck.  

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