Replicant 100 stylus

Wishful thinking is , say, general feeling. We all have some. My guess

is that Van den Hul confused patent duration with ''authors kind''. 

The later are about 70 years after authors dead. The former only

+/- 20 years. The lowest duration have trademarks ; 10 years, But

the cheapest. For +/- $700 one can get one. But who would not

long for royalties from such big company as Namiki? Only, say, 3%

and one can  compete with the new rich from Russia and Chine.

So why not try? 

The ''sense of difference'' of rights duration make no sense but this 

this is different issue. 

Yikes. There is so much crazy misinformation in this thread that it is scary. A little information is truly dangerous. First of all, Gyger is not out of business. They are a small company that has healthy sales and a niche that will keep them healthy for years. Phonograph diamonds are a tiny (no pun intended) sideline for them.

As to which diamond is what, the following is my distillation of what is found on the net and including a phone call to Mr. Wyndham Hodgson who told me he made the van den Hul diamond. Also AJ van den Hul’s own words in various interviews easily Googled.

1. AJ designed the vdH1 and vdH2 diamonds on the computer. But he still needs a partner to actually make the diamond;

2. He approaches Fritz Gyger (who else, anyway?) whose production equipment made from a “Meccano Set” according to AJ had a flaw in that it could not produce round phono diamonds. It made ovals, but AJ took advantage of this “flaw;”

3. Together Gyger and AJ developed the final version of the two diamonds, one radical asymmetrical and the other a conventional symmetrical design until it was ready for market;

4. Gyger beats van den Hul to the patent office and wins global patents for the Gyger 1 and Gyger 2;

5. AJ sues in Swiss court;

6. AJ in a compromise decision wins patent protection for all the globe except Switzerland. Gyger wins patent protection in Switzerland. Thus, the patent is SHARED. Gyger and van den Hul both may claim the design and use it as they like;

7. AJ needs someone to make his diamond. He finds Wyndham Hodgson who agrees. But Hodgson knows AJ can turn to no one else so gets a license agreement to produce the same two designs as the “Paratrace 1” and “Paratrace 2;”

8. Gyger diamonds are the one “real” versions as they are made as originally designed on the original equipment;

9. Van den Hul and Paratrace are made to the same design but are not quite “identical” to Gyger as anyone who views them under a microscope can see. They are not quite laterally symmetrical like a Gyger is, but they work and the tracing edges are where they should be;

10. Decca diamond looks like a Gyger 2, but it is a different size diamond block. It’s pretty huge in comparison to a Gyger 2, but otherwise appears to be made to the Gyger 2 formula. Could be made by Expert Stylus. Could be made by Gyger. The person to ask is John Wright if he would tell you.

11. Replicant 100 and all Ortofon Gyger diamonds are made by Fritz Gyger AG in Switzerland. Replicant 100, 110, 120 etc is all marketing bluster from Ortofon as is “FG70,” and “FG80,” etc. Gyger makes 2 diamonds with nominal dimensions. The S is 5/120 and the 2 is 5/75. As with any diamond, there are tolerances. Namiki’s dimensions for the Micro Ridge are given as r/R 2-3/70-80 microns. Gyger is likely truly the same way. Despite the specs, customers receive an assortment of sizes all compliant to a range. I suggest that all Ortofon might do is sort and grade what they get. They put the S with the 100 micron scanning edge in one pile and the 110 in another and so on. If you really believe they go through the time and expense. So a Replicant 100 is really a Gyger S with a measured scanning edge of 100 microns.

Gyger AG is not out of business. I order from them regularly.

I hope I have put some rumors to bed.

Needlestein

needlestein, As you can see in the introduction of this thread the

intention was to possible correct general statement that only

Ogura and  Namiki produce styli. Replicant 100 as well Decca and

''Expert stylus'' were the reason to assume that some ''third party''

also produce styli but we were not able to find WHO. If this ''third

party'' produce styli which are available to everyone that would be

impossible to hide. So I think that you are not correct with you

accusation or qualification ''Yikes'' against  participants in this

thread. You also avoid to answer the relevant question if ''your''

Geiger styli are available to everyone or only to  Ortofon, Expert

stylus and Decca. If those are the only and exclusive receivers

of Geiger styli than this does not contradict the general statement

about Ogura and Namiki. For any customer not availability of

whatever item is not meaningful . One can't order what is not

available.. 

I wrote about different names with the same reference. As example

I mentioned Vienna, Wenen, Bec and Wien. According to logic

whatever is true about Vienna is also true about Wenen (Dutch) and

Bec (Serbo -Croatian )etc,  ''salva veritate''.

But with trademarks the situation is different. It looks more as deceiving.

We have had this problem with Glanz cartridges which were different

animals than Astatic according to our MM authority. Till the members

them self discovered ''the same animal'' produced by Japanese company

Mitachi.

Now we learn that not only Geiger but also ''Expert stylus'' produce

''the same animal'' but by different names: Geiger x,y. and Paratrace I. II.

But why should they hide behind different names? 

Hi nandric,

The last line of my post says that I buy from Gyger all the time and so can you. They are easily found with a Google search. That’s how I found them.
Not sure where the confusion is. Yikes.

They aren’t hiding. AJ van den Hul is certainly not going to peddle a diamond called a Gyger when he can sell it as his own. Besides, Gyger doesn’t make van den Hul’s diamonds. I think calling them all the same would be confusing for the consumer. I know my Gygers come from Gwatt (Thun) Switzerland.
You’d have to ask AJ why he keeps it a secret that Expert produces his van den Hul diamonds, but Wyndham would be glad to tell you that his Paratrace are the same. You’re dealing with very successful people with business ideas that surround brand identity. Even they are built to the same formula, it’s really only Paratrace and van den Hul who are “hiding” if anyone should be accused of hiding. Gyger makes his diamonds and is up front about it and he doesn’t seem to care that van den Hul has diamonds made to the same formula in England. Why should he? He has no obligation to. The patent is his as much as it is van den Hul’s for all practical purposes.

Ortofon I guess can be maybe accused of hiding, but it’s marketing and they are probably at worst simply developing a tier system. It makes sense to grade diamonds and then charge a little more for the better ones. Most manufacturers do this in audio. Grados color schemes come to mind right away. I can think of others.
The drawback to their approach is that people who rely on Gyger’s nominal specifications can always sell the same 5/120 diamond as an upgrade to the Replicant 100 since if I don’t grade mine, I can assume all mine are 120. But that’s just an ironic detail.

The only mystery I see is who makes the Decca diamond. I would guess that it’s Expert because Expert can make that r/R and put it on larger diamonds that they already make. And they are in England, so I assume there’s a relationship there. John Wright probably knows Wyndham Hodgson professionally. Plus, Gyger only uses one size diamond blank for the two diamonds they make. So I’m my book, it’s less likely that they make the Decca diamond.

I understand your point about different languages having different names to indicate the same geographical place.  That would sort of apply maybe to van den Hul and Paratrace since they come from the same source.  But Gyger is separate.  It’s not the same diamond even if it’s made from the same formula.  One could say it’s sort of like the difference between a Fiat 128, Zantave Koral and a Yugo GV.  Same frame, same philosophy, same parts, different factories and different locations with some modifications.  But here, in this case, this is a clearly defined license agreement between Zastava and Fiat, and a marketing decision between Zastava and Yugo.