Let me end the Premp/Amplifier sound debate ...


I'm old enough to remember Julian Hersch from Audio magazine and his very unscientific view that all amplifiers sounded the same once they met a certain threshold.  Now the site Audio Science Review pushes the same.

I call these views unscientific as some one with a little bit of an engineering background as well as data science and epidemiology.  I find both of these approaches limited, both in technology used and applied and by stretching the claims for measurements beyond their intention, design and proof of meaning.

Without getting too much into that, I have a very pragmatic point of view.  Listen to the following three amplifier brands:

  • Pass Labs
  • Luxman
  • Ayre

If you can't hear a difference, buy the cheapest amplifier you can.  You'll be just as happy.  However, if you can, you need to evaluate the value of the pleasure of the gear next to your pocket book and buy accordingly.  I don't think the claim that some gear is pure audio jewelry, like a fancy watch which doesn't tell better time but looks pretty.  I get that, and I've heard that.  However, rather than try to use a method from Socrates to debate an issue to the exact wrong conclusion, listen for yourself.

If you wonder if capacitors sound different, build a two way and experiment for yourself.  Doing this leaves you with a very very different perspective than those who haven't. You'll also, in both cases, learn about yourself.  Are you someone who can't hear a difference?  Are you some one who can? What if you are some one who can hear a difference and doesn't care?  That's fine.  Be true to yourself, but I find very little on earth less worthwhile than having arguments about measurements vs. sound quality and value. 

To your own self and your own ears be true.  And if that leads you to a crystal radio and piezo ear piece so be it.  In my own system, and with my own speakers I've reached these conclusions for myself and I have very little concern for those who want to argue against my experiences and choices. 

 

erik_squires

Now the site Audio Science Review pushes the same.

It is not science. Theories are tested. A good theory passes ALL critical testing. A simple listening test proves that the theory that all amps that measure the same sound the same has been thoroughly debunked. 

These alleged sonic difference between power amplifiers, are they musically significant? 

They most certainly are. BTW it's not alleged, you just have to listen. Long term evaluation is the only way to do that. 

These alleged sonic difference between power amplifiers, are they musically significant?

They can be! I think the mistake that Julian Hersch and a lot of the folks over at ASR were/are making is arbitrarily deciding how low distortion has to be before its inaudible. IMO/IME it needs to be considerably lower than previously thought. I think this is because the ear is so keenly tuned to the presence of higher ordered harmonics, since it uses them to tell how loud a sound is. IME when the amp is at 6dB below full power those higher ordered harmonics have to be below -100dB in order to be masked, otherwise the amp will sound harsh at volume.

Harshness is unpleasant and IMO, not worth paying for.

Alternatively the harmonics can be masked by a lower ordered harmonics- the 2nd or 3rd. In a nutshell, the differences you hear between amps is mostly their distortion signature.

I recently was doing an A/B comparison on Preamps.  One was $50k and the other $20k.  The difference was so minute that I said even though the $50k was ever so slightly better, it would not warrant me to want to buy it.  On the other hand, I did the same test with a $30k and $50k DAC and I ended up buying the $50k DAC.  The level of detail in my mind was worth the extra $20k.  Lastly, if you are talking about tube amps just changing the tubes can have a dramatic impact on the sound.  So I guess it just depends but it is always great if you can do a real comparison in the same room.   

Correct spelling : Hirsch, and tested and reviewed at Stereo Review, not Audio. I immensely enjoyed reading him, as I did Harry Pearson, and some others. JH was an electrical engineer, and dedicated his life to the audio community. Look him up. Great story on Enjoy the Music. I am now listening to a chip amp ( I started a thread on it ), and it has " the least SOUND and the least PERSONALITY " of any amp I have ever owned. No question, amps have a sound ( tone )......and a personality ( everything else ). Everything has a sound, ime, although Ralph feels it is not so when you run " balanced ". This is my view from his posts. Enjoy ! MrD.

@willgolf

“ I recently was doing an A/B comparison on Preamps. One was $50k and the other $20k. The difference was so minute that I said even though the $50k was ever so slightly better, it would not warrant me to want to buy it ‘

 

Really  what brands / models were they ?