Let me end the Premp/Amplifier sound debate ...


I'm old enough to remember Julian Hersch from Audio magazine and his very unscientific view that all amplifiers sounded the same once they met a certain threshold.  Now the site Audio Science Review pushes the same.

I call these views unscientific as some one with a little bit of an engineering background as well as data science and epidemiology.  I find both of these approaches limited, both in technology used and applied and by stretching the claims for measurements beyond their intention, design and proof of meaning.

Without getting too much into that, I have a very pragmatic point of view.  Listen to the following three amplifier brands:

  • Pass Labs
  • Luxman
  • Ayre

If you can't hear a difference, buy the cheapest amplifier you can.  You'll be just as happy.  However, if you can, you need to evaluate the value of the pleasure of the gear next to your pocket book and buy accordingly.  I don't think the claim that some gear is pure audio jewelry, like a fancy watch which doesn't tell better time but looks pretty.  I get that, and I've heard that.  However, rather than try to use a method from Socrates to debate an issue to the exact wrong conclusion, listen for yourself.

If you wonder if capacitors sound different, build a two way and experiment for yourself.  Doing this leaves you with a very very different perspective than those who haven't. You'll also, in both cases, learn about yourself.  Are you someone who can't hear a difference?  Are you some one who can? What if you are some one who can hear a difference and doesn't care?  That's fine.  Be true to yourself, but I find very little on earth less worthwhile than having arguments about measurements vs. sound quality and value. 

To your own self and your own ears be true.  And if that leads you to a crystal radio and piezo ear piece so be it.  In my own system, and with my own speakers I've reached these conclusions for myself and I have very little concern for those who want to argue against my experiences and choices. 

 

erik_squires

This discussion isn't about what I can hear, but what you can. I selected those three amplifiers for a reason though. 

I don’t want an amp to have a sound and the only way I know to meet what I don’t want to hear is with amps that have great measurements like Benchmark and others.

I don’t want an amp to have a sound and the only way I know to meet what I don’t want to hear is with amps that have great measurements like Benchmark and others.

You'd have to convince me that:

  • Those measurements prevent amps from having a sound
  • That there is any value at all in it.

What good is neutral if it's not my favorite?

What good is neutral if it's not my favorite?

None for you but I thought this was about once amps meet a certain threshold you can't tell them apart.  

 

 

Hey @Holmz

Unfortunately most of those discussions do not actually provide new information, a new perspective, or new methods of evaluation and test. The arguments tend to pool around whether the scientific methods which are in the domain of common hobbyist knowledge are adequate to explain perceived phenomenon. At a certain point you have been in this hobby long enough to know it’s not productive, either in learning something new or in changing minds.

 

I have concern for others who would be open to discussion as to how and why we choose the things that we do, and whether there is a good process for doing that.

And that’s a much better discussion. It’s the listener’s wallet, lifestyle and value system which to me matters most.

^agree^ and well said sir.

@atmasphere nailed it.

And there was a RM video where the fellow that makes test equipment (the one that Amir on ASR uses) was talking about that they need to measure “other things” to correlate what is heard.
So there is some room to go in bringing subjective things into alignment with objective measurements… and that work is on the objective side of things.