2. amps-preamps
  3. 175407-20253

Let me end the Premp/Amplifier sound debate ...

I'm old enough to remember Julian Hersch from Audio magazine and his very unscientific view that all amplifiers sounded the same once they met a certain threshold.  Now the site Audio Science Review pushes the same.

I call these views unscientific as some one with a little bit of an engineering background as well as data science and epidemiology.  I find both of these approaches limited, both in technology used and applied and by stretching the claims for measurements beyond their intention, design and proof of meaning.

Without getting too much into that, I have a very pragmatic point of view.  Listen to the following three amplifier brands:

  • Pass Labs
  • Luxman
  • Ayre

If you can't hear a difference, buy the cheapest amplifier you can.  You'll be just as happy.  However, if you can, you need to evaluate the value of the pleasure of the gear next to your pocket book and buy accordingly.  I don't think the claim that some gear is pure audio jewelry, like a fancy watch which doesn't tell better time but looks pretty.  I get that, and I've heard that.  However, rather than try to use a method from Socrates to debate an issue to the exact wrong conclusion, listen for yourself.

If you wonder if capacitors sound different, build a two way and experiment for yourself.  Doing this leaves you with a very very different perspective than those who haven't. You'll also, in both cases, learn about yourself.  Are you someone who can't hear a difference?  Are you some one who can? What if you are some one who can hear a difference and doesn't care?  That's fine.  Be true to yourself, but I find very little on earth less worthwhile than having arguments about measurements vs. sound quality and value. 

To your own self and your own ears be true.  And if that leads you to a crystal radio and piezo ear piece so be it.  In my own system, and with my own speakers I've reached these conclusions for myself and I have very little concern for those who want to argue against my experiences and choices. 

 

erik_squires
jl35
3,936 posts
 

I think the three brands chosen are an excellent choice for the discussion as they are all excellent but different...I like all 3 ...

ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 

If you wonder if capacitors sound different, build a two way and experiment for yourself.

But all you will know is they sound different in that configuration along with the rest of the system and the room.

Nothing can be evaluated in exclusio.

Flaws in one system may be ameliorated by defects in another. Grunge monsters may prefer a completely different set of flaws to an opera lover.

While both are excellent, swapped, the Class D woofer amp and tube mid range are pretty unlistenable. Either full range into a different loudspeaker are PDG!

tmaker
31 posts
 

I think that too many of you end up listening to your equipment rather than your

music out of pure boredom, or the thought that there will always be something better out there that makes your already excellent system sound maybe 1% better. Its a rabbit hole that knows no bottom,and the people lined up to find said bottom is astonishing.

jonwolfpell
342 posts
 

Sgreg1- I really agree with you!  Long term quality & reliability is at least for myself, I major factor in considering how I spend my hard earned dollars. I’ve had my Basis 2500 turntable & Vector 4 arm for 20 years & other than a new belt ( original got stretched out), works as well as it did new & still sounds excellent! 
 

I recently purchased a Rogers High Fidelity integrated tube amp. It sounds great, top notch build quality, made in MA w/ a lifetime warranty. It should be the last amp I ever buy.  Expensive but long term, not really. 

toddalin's avatar
toddalin
175 posts
 

Tell you what. How many people in this audience do you really think even have those three amps for comparison?

 

Make a YouTube video of the three playing the same piece with all else being the same. Make sure that each amp first has at least 30 minutes play to come up to temperature and stabilize.

 

And, use a pink noise source and reputable meter to make sure that all of the amps are being recorded at the same level within 0.5 dB.

 

You contend that these amps sound so different, so a good YouTube video should easily display this difference. Doesn’t matter which someone prefers, just that they can hear a difference. Because if you can hear it in a YouTube video, you can certainly hear it in person.

BUT! Because the ear has such a poor memory, you may not even realize you hear a difference unless you can instantly A/B the sources as in a recording, be it audio or audio/video such as YouTube.

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